Comments on: The Democratic Attack Machine Gears Up http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/ Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree Sat, 07 Apr 2012 09:00:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Clint http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6093 Clint Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:56:10 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6093 Peter- Summary: "<b>a high-ranking Republican who had been instrumental in limiting gay rights got married last fall to another man</b>" -- a bit misleading, IIRC. "<b>I forget the details</b>" Details (off the top of my head): "high-ranking Republican" means the former campaign manager for a U.S. Congressman. "had been instrumental in limiting gay rights" means the U.S. Congressman he helped elect came out in favor of a state amendment banning same-sex marriage. I could be slightly misremembering (I can't even remember what season this was, to try and dig up references... it's possible the Congressman voted for the FMA, for example) but my reaction at the time was a shrug. Peter-

Summary: “a high-ranking Republican who had been instrumental in limiting gay rights got married last fall to another man” — a bit misleading, IIRC.

“I forget the details”

Details (off the top of my head): “high-ranking Republican” means the former campaign manager for a U.S. Congressman.

“had been instrumental in limiting gay rights” means the U.S. Congressman he helped elect came out in favor of a state amendment banning same-sex marriage.

I could be slightly misremembering (I can’t even remember what season this was, to try and dig up references… it’s possible the Congressman voted for the FMA, for example) but my reaction at the time was a shrug.

]]> By: AcademicElephant http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6073 AcademicElephant Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:27:07 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6073 I guess the moral of the story is that he's a Jackass for all Seasons. I guess the moral of the story is that he’s a Jackass for all Seasons.

]]> By: Knemon http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6069 Knemon Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:06:52 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6069 "There is a lot of campaign innuendo regarding the manliness of Democrats (e.g., I always thought that calling Kerry “French looking” was a code word for being effete and/or gay)." I've never bought this. Sometimes fuggedaboudit just means, you know, fuggedaboudit. "French-looking" was a handy catchall encompassing his personal hauteur and his tranzi politics ... Kerry is obviously a man's man, a gigolo of sorts. No one in their right minds thinks he's gay. Effete? That's in the eye of the beholder. Precious, but not effete. If Kerry's effite, so's Bush 41. (Whole lotta similarities there, to be honest - as only Thomas Friedman, poor thing, pointed out). “There is a lot of campaign innuendo regarding the manliness of Democrats (e.g., I always thought that calling Kerry “French looking” was a code word for being effete and/or gay).”

I’ve never bought this. Sometimes fuggedaboudit just means, you know, fuggedaboudit. “French-looking” was a handy catchall encompassing his personal hauteur and his tranzi politics … Kerry is obviously a man’s man, a gigolo of sorts. No one in their right minds thinks he’s gay.

Effete? That’s in the eye of the beholder. Precious, but not effete. If Kerry’s effite, so’s Bush 41. (Whole lotta similarities there, to be honest – as only Thomas Friedman, poor thing, pointed out).

]]> By: Mark http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6064 Mark Thu, 29 Sep 2005 02:46:18 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6064 Oops - I wrote it up before I saw your comment, AE; oh, well, I suspect we'll have reason to pick on Mr. Rangel again... Oops – I wrote it up before I saw your comment, AE; oh, well, I suspect we’ll have reason to pick on Mr. Rangel again…

]]> By: AcademicElephant http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6063 AcademicElephant Thu, 29 Sep 2005 02:37:17 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6063 I'm with you, Mark--interesting if this winds up building support for Delay. Rangel is going for the annual title, not just the weekly one. Don't forget the whole Cheney-is-a-sick-animal business from a couple of weeks ago when writing it up. I’m with you, Mark–interesting if this winds up building support for Delay.

Rangel is going for the annual title, not just the weekly one. Don’t forget the whole Cheney-is-a-sick-animal business from a couple of weeks ago when writing it up.

]]> By: peter http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6058 peter Thu, 29 Sep 2005 01:23:30 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6058 OK, I'm clueless - Weekly Standard? Weekly Krugman column? TW3 (that was the week that was)? Ya got me... OK, I’m clueless – Weekly Standard? Weekly Krugman column? TW3 (that was the week that was)?

Ya got me…

]]> By: Mark http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6055 Mark Thu, 29 Sep 2005 01:03:22 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6055 Just for the record, I'm not a big Delay fan, either; but nothing gets me solidly behind someone quicker than shennanigans of the sort Earle is pulling...Delay is not going to be convicted...even if true, the charge is well-night impossible to prove. peter, you reminded me of some unfinished business...some Weekly business, if you get my drift...if not, you'll know what I mean very soon... Just for the record, I’m not a big Delay fan, either; but nothing gets me solidly behind someone quicker than shennanigans of the sort Earle is pulling…Delay is not going to be convicted…even if true, the charge is well-night impossible to prove.

peter, you reminded me of some unfinished business…some Weekly business, if you get my drift…if not, you’ll know what I mean very soon…

]]> By: peter http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6054 peter Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:33:01 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6054 I completely agree: a gay person should not be bound to the gay rights movement or any other ideology – we are all free to choose whatever ideology we want (or no ideology at all). Just because you’re gay, you don’t have to be Barney Frank. Similarly, I think it was wrong to criticize Clarence Thomas for opposing affirmative action because he is a black man. What I do find dissonant, however, was when a high-ranking Republican who had been instrumental in limiting gay rights got married last fall to another man. I forget the details – I saw the announcement in the New York Times wedding section (which my wife refers to as the “women’s sports section”) – but I remember the outcry which followed (not least of which because this person was well closeted – apparently the wedding announcement in the Times was a surprise and an embarrassment to him). I suppose it is possible to be gay and to actively oppose gay rights, but you have to wonder… Regarding DeLay: he may well be innocent, and there can certainly be smoke without fire. The charges against Rostenkowki seemed to me to be trumped up, and in any event too insignificant to have such devastating results for him. However, there are certainly enough appearances of impropriety and/or illegality that he is probably toast regardless of the truth or falsity of the charges. Similarly, Frist’s aspirations are probably dead as well – his actions may or may not have been violations of securities laws, but they appear similar enough to Martha Stewart that I doubt that the public will be inclined to make the distinction. Politics, like life, just ain’t fair. An off-topic observation: shame on the Democrats for not disavowing Charlie Rangel’s equation of George Bush will Bull Connors. I am no fan of Bush, but I don’t think he is racist and he is certainly no Bull Connors… I completely agree: a gay person should not be bound to the gay rights movement or any other ideology – we are all free to choose whatever ideology we want (or no ideology at all). Just because you’re gay, you don’t have to be Barney Frank. Similarly, I think it was wrong to criticize Clarence Thomas for opposing affirmative action because he is a black man. What I do find dissonant, however, was when a high-ranking Republican who had been instrumental in limiting gay rights got married last fall to another man. I forget the details – I saw the announcement in the New York Times wedding section (which my wife refers to as the “women’s sports section”) – but I remember the outcry which followed (not least of which because this person was well closeted – apparently the wedding announcement in the Times was a surprise and an embarrassment to him). I suppose it is possible to be gay and to actively oppose gay rights, but you have to wonder…

Regarding DeLay: he may well be innocent, and there can certainly be smoke without fire. The charges against Rostenkowki seemed to me to be trumped up, and in any event too insignificant to have such devastating results for him. However, there are certainly enough appearances of impropriety and/or illegality that he is probably toast regardless of the truth or falsity of the charges. Similarly, Frist’s aspirations are probably dead as well – his actions may or may not have been violations of securities laws, but they appear similar enough to Martha Stewart that I doubt that the public will be inclined to make the distinction. Politics, like life, just ain’t fair.

An off-topic observation: shame on the Democrats for not disavowing Charlie Rangel’s equation of George Bush will Bull Connors. I am no fan of Bush, but I don’t think he is racist and he is certainly no Bull Connors…

]]> By: AcademicElephant http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6053 AcademicElephant Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:04:03 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6053 Dreier's homosexuality is the worst kept secret in Washington--I don't think it is a particular secret. It's just not how he defines himself. What I don't understand is why a person can't be gay and disagree with the contemporary Gay Rights movement. It's like saying that if you're black you have to agree with affirmative action or if you're a woman you have to adhere to Feminist ideology--or you're not black or a woman. To my mind, this is what creates stereotypes. Where is Charlie Rangel, Dreier's cross-talk other half, on this? Re. Delay: I'm no huge fan, but it doesn't seem to me that he's actually...guilty of anything. And I wonder how many red-state Dems with zealous DAs in their hometowns are nervously calling their lawyers tonight. Might the left be burning down its own house, yet again? Dreier’s homosexuality is the worst kept secret in Washington–I don’t think it is a particular secret. It’s just not how he defines himself. What I don’t understand is why a person can’t be gay and disagree with the contemporary Gay Rights movement. It’s like saying that if you’re black you have to agree with affirmative action or if you’re a woman you have to adhere to Feminist ideology–or you’re not black or a woman. To my mind, this is what creates stereotypes.

Where is Charlie Rangel, Dreier’s cross-talk other half, on this?

Re. Delay: I’m no huge fan, but it doesn’t seem to me that he’s actually…guilty of anything. And I wonder how many red-state Dems with zealous DAs in their hometowns are nervously calling their lawyers tonight. Might the left be burning down its own house, yet again?

]]> By: Mark http://informedspeculation.com/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/comment-page-1/#comment-6052 Mark Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:58:32 +0000 http://decision08.net/2005/09/28/the-democratic-attack-machine-gears-up/#comment-6052 peter, two quick points: (1) Drum gave examples, and his comments give plenty more, that the headline is indeed appropriate. However, I was clearer in the post itself that I was talking about the activists, and most Democratic bloggers are, indeed, progressive activists. The rank-and-file Democrats could care less about Dreier's sexuality. (2) I love the line from Cuomo - it now has a permanent spot in my heart... peter, two quick points: (1) Drum gave examples, and his comments give plenty more, that the headline is indeed appropriate. However, I was clearer in the post itself that I was talking about the activists, and most Democratic bloggers are, indeed, progressive activists. The rank-and-file Democrats could care less about Dreier’s sexuality.

(2) I love the line from Cuomo – it now has a permanent spot in my heart…

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