Bush’s Casualty Estimate, Part Two
It’s no good spending all of your time trying to justify yourself or the things that you’ve written; if you post as much as I do, you’re going to put up some clunkers. Still, I was taken to task by commenter Joe yesterday for suggesting that Bush’s estimate of 30,000 Iraqi dead was refreshing candor, and I can’t resist pointing out that if I’m an idiot for thinking that, then so is Peter Baker of the Washington Post:
The estimate marked the first time Bush has personally provided an assessment of the Iraqi death toll, a highly sensitive subject that his administration largely avoids discussing at any level, much less from the presidential lectern. Although the Pentagon keeps careful track of Americans killed in Iraq — now exceeding 2,100 troops — military officers have said they do not count Iraqi dead.
…The comments came during a rare audience question-and-answer session after a speech here on Iraq’s upcoming elections, the third of four speeches leading up to Thursday’s vote. After being criticized for refusing to honor the custom of taking questions at the Council on Foreign Relations in Washington last week, the president opened the floor after his address to the World Affairs Council of Philadelphia.
The first person he called on was Didi Goldmark, 63, a former libel lawyer from New Hope, Pa., who asked him how many Iraqis have died in the war. Unlike aides who have been asked that question, Bush gave a direct answer.
“I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis,” he said. “We’ve lost about 2,140 of our own troops in Iraq.”
Bush moved on to the next question without identifying how he arrived at the figure or how many were killed by U.S. forces and not Iraqi insurgents and foreign militants. Aides later said it was not a government estimate but a reflection of figures in news media reports. Still, Bush offered it without qualification, in effect accepting it as a reasonable approximation.
The Iraqi death toll has been the subject of considerable debate. A group of British researchers and antiwar activists called Iraq Body Count estimates civilian casualties between 27,383 and 30,892, not counting Iraqi troops or insurgents, by tabulating incidents reported in media and human rights reports. Iraqi authorities have said that roughly 800 people die a month in violence there, a rate that if typical over the course of the conflict would come to 25,600.
An epidemiological study published in the British journal the Lancet last year estimated 100,000 deaths in the first 18 months since the invasion based on door-to-door interviews in selected neighborhoods extrapolated across the country, an estimate that other experts and human rights groups considered inflated.
The significance is that Bush put an ‘official’ stamp of approval on a subject that he, his aides, and the military have previously dodged – and furthermore, that he confirmed that the range was about what most reasonable observers had concluded.
That is significant, that is candor, and I don’t think any further explanation is necessary…

Mark – at the risk of changing the subject, you may find this latest report on the Israeli plans for a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities interesting…
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1920074,00.html
Thanks, I’ll check it out…Oh, I’ve actually seen that one and posted on it…you might have missed it. Yes, that report is quite alarming, if understandable; I think this story is the strongest indication yet of how serious this situation is becoming…Aha! The moonbats will take careful note of your defeaning silence on the question of whether his candor was in fact “refreshing” as you previously claimed.
On a more serious note, being a statistics hound, I’d love to see more numbers on deaths of Iraqi troops and of insurgents (I know it’s not the most important statistic in the war, but the incredibly lopsided mortality rates are relevant), and clearer numbers on how many of the 30,000 were killed directly by coalition action and how many were killed directly by “insurgent” action (including terrorists). It seems likely that a prominent Democrat within the next week or two will make an off-hand comment about how we’ve killed 30,000 Iraqis… probably linked to a positive comment on the elections with the magical word: “but”.
Clint, the latest edition of the Iraq Index from the Brookings Institution gives the following information:about 3,700 Iraqi military and police have been killed as of December 11, 2005, and also, as of December 11, 4,972 deaths from IEDs (so we know at least that number for certain has been caused by the terrorists).
The number of insurgents detained or killed (they don’t seperate killed only) as of the end of November is a whopping 57,470(!!!)…
All figures are of course estimates…
180,000…but then they were just Kurds.
“Although the trial concerns a Shiite massacre, Juhi has suggested that a bloody campaign against the Kurds, in which more than 180,000 people were killed over the past two decades, will be brought next.”
http://www.mmorning.com/articleC.asp?Article=3104&CategoryID=6
That’s just a mention of the Kurds. Anybody want to take a shot on the Shiites kill by Saddam?
The closest thing to Stalin, in this world…
speaking of the world, I imagine they will have a strong rxn to the number killed by US forces. Not a whimper when it is going on without end. Rwanda anybody?
The ‘holier than thou’ of the left, and its apathy has killed more people than World War II. You’d think the UN was formed to address this…
Too busy cashing the checks America plunks down on their counters to care.