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	<title>Comments on: Kos Wars, Episode I: The Phantom Pundit</title>
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	<description>Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree</description>
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		<title>By: Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Markos Flexes His Muscles Again</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2005/12/29/kos-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-pundit/comment-page-1/#comment-10568</link>
		<dc:creator>Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Markos Flexes His Muscles Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2776#comment-10568</guid>
		<description>[...] If we know one thing about our good friend Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, it&#8217;s that he hates Joe Lieberman&#8230;I mean seriously, with a passion. Why, he said so himself: We [Democrats] hate Lieberman. Lieberman is going to get a primary challenger for his Senate seat next year if me and a lot of grass-roots groups have our way. If there&#8217;s a second thing we know, it&#8217;s that the candidates Markos supports have never, and never will, win an election. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If we know one thing about our good friend Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, it&#8217;s that he hates Joe Lieberman&#8230;I mean seriously, with a passion. Why, he said so himself: We [Democrats] hate Lieberman. Lieberman is going to get a primary challenger for his Senate seat next year if me and a lot of grass-roots groups have our way. If there&#8217;s a second thing we know, it&#8217;s that the candidates Markos supports have never, and never will, win an election. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2005/12/29/kos-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-pundit/comment-page-1/#comment-9824</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2776#comment-9824</guid>
		<description>Dennis-

For the &lt;i&gt;West Wing&lt;/i&gt;ers and much of the national party, that&#039;s true.  But if they genuinely nominate a true GOP-state democrat, their nominee will bring quite a bit of understanding.

In general, I think &lt;i&gt;West Wing&lt;/i&gt; is fascinating -- it&#039;s very well written, and the assumptions and errors are themselves fascinating insights into the other side of the political spectrum.  One of the more jarringly inaccurate scenes, which seems relevant here, was when President Bartlett was talking with his VP -- a Texas democrat who is, among other things, against gun control.  Bartlett asks Hoynes why on Earth anyone would be in favor of concealed-carry laws, and Hoynes admits that he has no idea why anyone would think that concealed weapons have any value as a deterrent to crime.  It seems very unlikely to me that there&#039;s any major politician in Texas who doesn&#039;t at least know what the argument on this issue looks like, even if he or she doesn&#039;t agree with it.

If the Democrats really do nominate a GOP-state democrat, like Governor Warner,  he won&#039;t be Alan Sorkin&#039;s version of a conservative democrat -- he&#039;ll bring along an actual understanding of conservative voters and their issues and values.  Evan Bayh actually does understand midwestern voters, and Mark Warner actually does understand southern voters, in a way that a California or Massachusetts politician probably doesn&#039;t.

Thinking that most Americans would buy Kerry as strong on defense because he served was a deep miscalculation -- a geographic electoral strategy probably wouldn&#039;t be, so long as Bayh or Warner doesn&#039;t have to swerve too far to the left to get the nomination.  And it could work even if Kos-types and Sorkin-types support one of them for all the wrong reasons.

I was expecting that the left wing would feel disgusted with &quot;electability&quot; arguments this time round, given the failure of the &quot;electable&quot; Kerry, and that they&#039;d go for a &quot;true believer&quot; instead.  That Kos is supportive of Warner at this point is interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis-</p>
<p>For the <i>West Wing</i>ers and much of the national party, that&#8217;s true.  But if they genuinely nominate a true GOP-state democrat, their nominee will bring quite a bit of understanding.</p>
<p>In general, I think <i>West Wing</i> is fascinating &#8212; it&#8217;s very well written, and the assumptions and errors are themselves fascinating insights into the other side of the political spectrum.  One of the more jarringly inaccurate scenes, which seems relevant here, was when President Bartlett was talking with his VP &#8212; a Texas democrat who is, among other things, against gun control.  Bartlett asks Hoynes why on Earth anyone would be in favor of concealed-carry laws, and Hoynes admits that he has no idea why anyone would think that concealed weapons have any value as a deterrent to crime.  It seems very unlikely to me that there&#8217;s any major politician in Texas who doesn&#8217;t at least know what the argument on this issue looks like, even if he or she doesn&#8217;t agree with it.</p>
<p>If the Democrats really do nominate a GOP-state democrat, like Governor Warner,  he won&#8217;t be Alan Sorkin&#8217;s version of a conservative democrat &#8212; he&#8217;ll bring along an actual understanding of conservative voters and their issues and values.  Evan Bayh actually does understand midwestern voters, and Mark Warner actually does understand southern voters, in a way that a California or Massachusetts politician probably doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>Thinking that most Americans would buy Kerry as strong on defense because he served was a deep miscalculation &#8212; a geographic electoral strategy probably wouldn&#8217;t be, so long as Bayh or Warner doesn&#8217;t have to swerve too far to the left to get the nomination.  And it could work even if Kos-types and Sorkin-types support one of them for all the wrong reasons.</p>
<p>I was expecting that the left wing would feel disgusted with &#8220;electability&#8221; arguments this time round, given the failure of the &#8220;electable&#8221; Kerry, and that they&#8217;d go for a &#8220;true believer&#8221; instead.  That Kos is supportive of Warner at this point is interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2005/12/29/kos-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-pundit/comment-page-1/#comment-9805</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2776#comment-9805</guid>
		<description>He slams Hillary for not having a defined position on the war (never mind that I think it&#039;s a lot more defined than he seems to believe, but we&#039;ll go with his theory for now). If this is such an Achilles&#039; Heel, why does he have such love for Mark Warner? I very well might be wrong, but I haven&#039;t heard Warner opining much about the Iraq War.

This whole &quot;Warner can win a red state&quot; argument is the same thinking that led to &quot;John Kerry served in Vietnam, therefore no one will have nation security qualms about him because they&#039;ll be mesmerized by his shiny medals.&quot; It&#039;s all about nakedly obvious tactics and not about the ideas behind hawkish and dovish positions that lead people to actually vote a certain way.

There was a recent episode of &lt;i&gt;The West Wing&lt;/i&gt; where Josh, the campaign manager for the Santos campaign, made some reference to the fact the Democrats poll weakly on national security. All the underlings seemed to befuddled by this news, but he wrote it off with a comment along the lines of &quot;Yeah, I know it&#039;s ridiculous, but it&#039;s something we&#039;ve got to deal with.&quot; Now aside from the dopiness of Democratic professionals being shocked to find this out, I was most intrigued by the notion that such a polling weakness is just crazy, and addressing &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; there might be a weakness wasn&#039;t important. Instead, it was time to roll out the cheap stunts. Make sure Santos is seen doing his weekend Air Force Reserve training, looking macho in his flight suit!

Considering the Democrats are quick to mock President Bush for his martial show-pony tactics like landing on an aircraft carrier, they seem strikingly determined to do the same thing (Let&#039;s stick Dukakis in a tank! Let&#039;s have Kerry salute!). Until they get beyond this kind of tone-deaf approach, this kind of &quot;Gosh, Warner threw some mysterious magic dust we don&#039;t understand in the faces of red staters, so let&#039;s support him&quot; approach, they&#039;ll continue to have trouble getting voters to choose them if national security remains an issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He slams Hillary for not having a defined position on the war (never mind that I think it&#8217;s a lot more defined than he seems to believe, but we&#8217;ll go with his theory for now). If this is such an Achilles&#8217; Heel, why does he have such love for Mark Warner? I very well might be wrong, but I haven&#8217;t heard Warner opining much about the Iraq War.</p>
<p>This whole &#8220;Warner can win a red state&#8221; argument is the same thinking that led to &#8220;John Kerry served in Vietnam, therefore no one will have nation security qualms about him because they&#8217;ll be mesmerized by his shiny medals.&#8221; It&#8217;s all about nakedly obvious tactics and not about the ideas behind hawkish and dovish positions that lead people to actually vote a certain way.</p>
<p>There was a recent episode of <i>The West Wing</i> where Josh, the campaign manager for the Santos campaign, made some reference to the fact the Democrats poll weakly on national security. All the underlings seemed to befuddled by this news, but he wrote it off with a comment along the lines of &#8220;Yeah, I know it&#8217;s ridiculous, but it&#8217;s something we&#8217;ve got to deal with.&#8221; Now aside from the dopiness of Democratic professionals being shocked to find this out, I was most intrigued by the notion that such a polling weakness is just crazy, and addressing <i>why</i> there might be a weakness wasn&#8217;t important. Instead, it was time to roll out the cheap stunts. Make sure Santos is seen doing his weekend Air Force Reserve training, looking macho in his flight suit!</p>
<p>Considering the Democrats are quick to mock President Bush for his martial show-pony tactics like landing on an aircraft carrier, they seem strikingly determined to do the same thing (Let&#8217;s stick Dukakis in a tank! Let&#8217;s have Kerry salute!). Until they get beyond this kind of tone-deaf approach, this kind of &#8220;Gosh, Warner threw some mysterious magic dust we don&#8217;t understand in the faces of red staters, so let&#8217;s support him&#8221; approach, they&#8217;ll continue to have trouble getting voters to choose them if national security remains an issue.</p>
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		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2005/12/29/kos-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-pundit/comment-page-1/#comment-9802</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2776#comment-9802</guid>
		<description>Newsweek interviewing Kos - sounds like the definition of an echo chamber here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newsweek interviewing Kos &#8211; sounds like the definition of an echo chamber here.</p>
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