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	<title>Comments on: NSA Eavesdropping Roundup</title>
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	<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/</link>
	<description>Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree</description>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11498</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11498</guid>
		<description>Authorization to Use Military Force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Authorization to Use Military Force.</p>
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		<title>By: Hokie Explorer</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11490</link>
		<dc:creator>Hokie Explorer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 03:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11490</guid>
		<description>&quot;But the point being made by other lawyers (Kerr is one, the fellas at Powerline are another) is that the Congress does not have the power to restrict the President’s Constitutionally granted war time powers.&quot;

When did Congress declare war?  Oh right, they didn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But the point being made by other lawyers (Kerr is one, the fellas at Powerline are another) is that the Congress does not have the power to restrict the President’s Constitutionally granted war time powers.&#8221;</p>
<p>When did Congress declare war?  Oh right, they didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11488</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11488</guid>
		<description>Well, really, impuning another&#039;s motives and character are neither honorable nor qualitatively supportive of one&#039;s arguments.

If you disagree with the Powerline dudes then make your case on the merits (Mona did this furtively with the reference to the Youngstown case).  Also, it would be useful to your argument on the legal merits to enumerate your legal credentials - if, in fact, you wish to pick a fight with the lawyers that are Powerline.

I will say again: I am not a lawyer and not qualified to judge the legal(istic) merits of the arguments for and against the President&#039;s authorized NSA Program, but even the most rudimentary reading of the legal opionons on the NSA situation can only lead to the conclusion that there is widespread disagreement on the legality of the Program.

Can we agree on that at least?

Oh, and for the record, spying on terrorists, regardless of where they reside, seems like a really, really good idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, really, impuning another&#8217;s motives and character are neither honorable nor qualitatively supportive of one&#8217;s arguments.</p>
<p>If you disagree with the Powerline dudes then make your case on the merits (Mona did this furtively with the reference to the Youngstown case).  Also, it would be useful to your argument on the legal merits to enumerate your legal credentials &#8211; if, in fact, you wish to pick a fight with the lawyers that are Powerline.</p>
<p>I will say again: I am not a lawyer and not qualified to judge the legal(istic) merits of the arguments for and against the President&#8217;s authorized NSA Program, but even the most rudimentary reading of the legal opionons on the NSA situation can only lead to the conclusion that there is widespread disagreement on the legality of the Program.</p>
<p>Can we agree on that at least?</p>
<p>Oh, and for the record, spying on terrorists, regardless of where they reside, seems like a really, really good idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Mona</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11486</link>
		<dc:creator>Mona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11486</guid>
		<description>Clint: I sit corrected. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clint: I sit corrected. <img src='http://informedspeculation.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11484</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11484</guid>
		<description>Now, now.  Let&#039;s get our terms straight.

To &quot;whore&quot; is to misuse one&#039;s talents on behalf of another for financial remuneration (for example, if our fine host were to write a post extolling the wisdom of Howard Dean in exchange for a hefty sum of money from the D.N.C.).

What the folks at Powerline do would more accurately be describes as &quot;slutting&quot; for Bush.  They are doing it because they like and support him, not because he&#039;s paying them to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, now.  Let&#8217;s get our terms straight.</p>
<p>To &#8220;whore&#8221; is to misuse one&#8217;s talents on behalf of another for financial remuneration (for example, if our fine host were to write a post extolling the wisdom of Howard Dean in exchange for a hefty sum of money from the D.N.C.).</p>
<p>What the folks at Powerline do would more accurately be describes as &#8220;slutting&#8221; for Bush.  They are doing it because they like and support him, not because he&#8217;s paying them to.</p>
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		<title>By: Mona</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11482</link>
		<dc:creator>Mona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 23:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11482</guid>
		<description>This is very near to a gotcha moment in terms of demonstrating that Bush knows his NSA program is illegal, and that what he said via Gen. Hayden yesterday is pure codswollop. It is speeding around the Internet right now, so far mostly on the left blogosphere, but conservative Mark S. at Americanfuture has linked to it also, and gives it credibility. Others on the right will end up linking as well, if for no other reason than that it cannot be &lt;a href=&quot;http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/01/administrations-new-fisa-defense-is.html#links&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ignored.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very near to a gotcha moment in terms of demonstrating that Bush knows his NSA program is illegal, and that what he said via Gen. Hayden yesterday is pure codswollop. It is speeding around the Internet right now, so far mostly on the left blogosphere, but conservative Mark S. at Americanfuture has linked to it also, and gives it credibility. Others on the right will end up linking as well, if for no other reason than that it cannot be <a href="http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/01/administrations-new-fisa-defense-is.html#links" rel="nofollow">ignored.</a></p>
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		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11480</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11480</guid>
		<description>&quot;...they are whoring for Bush.&quot; 

Gee, ya think? They&#039;ve always made no bones about where they stand politically - disagree with them or not, to accuse them of something so transparently obvious seems quite beside the point. 

The only question I&#039;m interested in amidst all of this legal parsing of language and intent is what does the actual public think about all of this? Here&#039;s a new E.J. Dionne column from the WAPO that examines why the Dems are always failing at making these faux controversies stick: 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/23/AR2006012301261.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns

I&#039;ve said it way too many times, but again, until the Dems start acting seriously about our national security and defense, they&#039;ll be wandering in the political wilderness for the forseeable furture, no matter what candidates they offer up for sacrifice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;they are whoring for Bush.&#8221; </p>
<p>Gee, ya think? They&#8217;ve always made no bones about where they stand politically &#8211; disagree with them or not, to accuse them of something so transparently obvious seems quite beside the point. </p>
<p>The only question I&#8217;m interested in amidst all of this legal parsing of language and intent is what does the actual public think about all of this? Here&#8217;s a new E.J. Dionne column from the WAPO that examines why the Dems are always failing at making these faux controversies stick: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/23/AR2006012301261.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/23/AR2006012301261.html?nav=rss_opinion/columns</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it way too many times, but again, until the Dems start acting seriously about our national security and defense, they&#8217;ll be wandering in the political wilderness for the forseeable furture, no matter what candidates they offer up for sacrifice.</p>
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		<title>By: Mona</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11478</link>
		<dc:creator>Mona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11478</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But the point being made by other lawyers (Kerr is one, the fellas at Powerline are another) is that the Congress does not have the power to restrict the President’s Constitutionally granted war time powers.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s not what Kerr says. Kerr has written he believes Bush is likely violating the law (FISA, but not, in Kerr&#039;s view, the 4th Am), and that his best guess is that the SCOTUS would so hold by 8-1.

As for Powerline, well, I try to always be civil and polite, but in my very strong opinion they are not behaving like objective legal analysts; they are whoring for Bush. I could explain why I think that, and have done so elsewhere in tedious detail, but it reduces to their making claims about the law that sound all legalese-ish and compelling to laypeople, but which other lawyers recognize as crap.

A fer instance: Hinderaker&#039;s twice dismisisng Justice Jackson&#039;s concurrence in the &lt;i&gt;Youngstown&lt;/i&gt; steel case as &quot;sloppy thinking.&quot;  That is so preposterous, and even Gonzalez parses the Adminstration&#039;s action in terms of that Opinion, as does the Congressional Research Service. But Hinderaker wants it to not be in play because it is pretty much fatal to Bush&#039;s claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But the point being made by other lawyers (Kerr is one, the fellas at Powerline are another) is that the Congress does not have the power to restrict the President’s Constitutionally granted war time powers.</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s not what Kerr says. Kerr has written he believes Bush is likely violating the law (FISA, but not, in Kerr&#8217;s view, the 4th Am), and that his best guess is that the SCOTUS would so hold by 8-1.</p>
<p>As for Powerline, well, I try to always be civil and polite, but in my very strong opinion they are not behaving like objective legal analysts; they are whoring for Bush. I could explain why I think that, and have done so elsewhere in tedious detail, but it reduces to their making claims about the law that sound all legalese-ish and compelling to laypeople, but which other lawyers recognize as crap.</p>
<p>A fer instance: Hinderaker&#8217;s twice dismisisng Justice Jackson&#8217;s concurrence in the <i>Youngstown</i> steel case as &#8220;sloppy thinking.&#8221;  That is so preposterous, and even Gonzalez parses the Adminstration&#8217;s action in terms of that Opinion, as does the Congressional Research Service. But Hinderaker wants it to not be in play because it is pretty much fatal to Bush&#8217;s claims.</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11474</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11474</guid>
		<description>But the point being made by other lawyers (Kerr is one, the fellas at Powerline are another) is that the Congress does not have the power to restrict the President&#039;s Constitutionally granted war time powers.  If the NSA program is spying on international subjects and communications that happen to then connect with a domestic individual, then this creates a grey area in the law and among the powers of the Congress and President.  As evidence of this greyness I point you to the lawyerly disagreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the point being made by other lawyers (Kerr is one, the fellas at Powerline are another) is that the Congress does not have the power to restrict the President&#8217;s Constitutionally granted war time powers.  If the NSA program is spying on international subjects and communications that happen to then connect with a domestic individual, then this creates a grey area in the law and among the powers of the Congress and President.  As evidence of this greyness I point you to the lawyerly disagreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Fargus</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/01/24/nsa-eavesdropping-roundup/comment-page-1/#comment-11470</link>
		<dc:creator>Fargus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=2993#comment-11470</guid>
		<description>I just wish the Administration would have had the same thoughts as you, Mark.  This debate is entirely different than one about whether such a program would be objectionable, helpful, whatever.  I may not even have a problem with the idea of it, but I have a problem with the Executive Branch&#039;s decision that it didn&#039;t have to worry about whether it was legal or not before doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just wish the Administration would have had the same thoughts as you, Mark.  This debate is entirely different than one about whether such a program would be objectionable, helpful, whatever.  I may not even have a problem with the idea of it, but I have a problem with the Executive Branch&#8217;s decision that it didn&#8217;t have to worry about whether it was legal or not before doing it.</p>
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