<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Buckley: We Did Win (Sort Of)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/</link>
	<description>Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2012 09:00:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sean P</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13514</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Mar 2006 03:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13514</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m suprised this needs to be repeated, but Iraq isn&#039;t the only nation that borders on Iran that has a major deployment of US troops and which we have accused Iran of meddling in.

Remember Afganistan? The country that was descending into anarchy when our reconstruction efforts weren&#039;t proceeding fast enough? Al Queda and the Iranian government, among others, have simply diverted their efforts from Afganistan towards Iraq. Probably the right move politically from their part, as the Iraq war never had the same level of support here in the US that the Afganistan war did, but the move is a zero sum game for Al Queda and Iran&#039;s standpoint, as they seem to lack the ability to wage a full scale operation against the US in two countries. Of course, if the US DOES pull out of Iraq before the Iraqis can govern themselves, guess where Al Queda and Iran&#039;s resources will go next?

As far Iran&#039;s influence on Iraq, as Hitchens noted, that cuts two ways. The people in Iran have witnessed several free and (largely) democratic elections, ones in which the candidates and outcome were not preselected. The people in Iran have also had a chance to observe an Ayatolla who is content to act as a spiritual advisor and does not seek to rule the nation outright. The violence in Iraq is terrible, but not more so than Iran (where opponents are literally whipped to death, in public, for merely questioning the regime) , and certainly less than what occurred during Saddam&#039;s rule (and of course, most of the violence being committed in Iraq is done by henchmen of Saddam&#039;s regime, so it seems extremely obscene to blame the US for those deaths).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m suprised this needs to be repeated, but Iraq isn&#8217;t the only nation that borders on Iran that has a major deployment of US troops and which we have accused Iran of meddling in.</p>
<p>Remember Afganistan? The country that was descending into anarchy when our reconstruction efforts weren&#8217;t proceeding fast enough? Al Queda and the Iranian government, among others, have simply diverted their efforts from Afganistan towards Iraq. Probably the right move politically from their part, as the Iraq war never had the same level of support here in the US that the Afganistan war did, but the move is a zero sum game for Al Queda and Iran&#8217;s standpoint, as they seem to lack the ability to wage a full scale operation against the US in two countries. Of course, if the US DOES pull out of Iraq before the Iraqis can govern themselves, guess where Al Queda and Iran&#8217;s resources will go next?</p>
<p>As far Iran&#8217;s influence on Iraq, as Hitchens noted, that cuts two ways. The people in Iran have witnessed several free and (largely) democratic elections, ones in which the candidates and outcome were not preselected. The people in Iran have also had a chance to observe an Ayatolla who is content to act as a spiritual advisor and does not seek to rule the nation outright. The violence in Iraq is terrible, but not more so than Iran (where opponents are literally whipped to death, in public, for merely questioning the regime) , and certainly less than what occurred during Saddam&#8217;s rule (and of course, most of the violence being committed in Iraq is done by henchmen of Saddam&#8217;s regime, so it seems extremely obscene to blame the US for those deaths).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: megapotamus</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13500</link>
		<dc:creator>megapotamus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 22:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13500</guid>
		<description>&quot;Say what you will about Hussein,&quot;

And what shall we say of those who declare Hussein immaterial? Not much good....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Say what you will about Hussein,&#8221;</p>
<p>And what shall we say of those who declare Hussein immaterial? Not much good&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13436</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 04:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13436</guid>
		<description>Of course Iraq was a counterweight to Iran.  They have been regional enemies for centuries and fought each other in the 1980&#039;s.  Just as Bush is in India today to cultivate them as a countervailing force to China, the existence of Hussein&#039;s army was a restraining force on Iranian ambitions.  Now that Iraq is divided along ethnic lines, the Iranians are able to exercise considerable influence among Iraqi Shia.  For example, the Prime Minister who was appointed two weeks ago has extensive ties to Tehran.

Moreover, the mullahs see the American Army bogged down next door and are now more aggressive in flaunting the rest of the world with their nuclear program.  Iran turned out to be the big winner from the Iraqi invasion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Iraq was a counterweight to Iran.  They have been regional enemies for centuries and fought each other in the 1980&#8242;s.  Just as Bush is in India today to cultivate them as a countervailing force to China, the existence of Hussein&#8217;s army was a restraining force on Iranian ambitions.  Now that Iraq is divided along ethnic lines, the Iranians are able to exercise considerable influence among Iraqi Shia.  For example, the Prime Minister who was appointed two weeks ago has extensive ties to Tehran.</p>
<p>Moreover, the mullahs see the American Army bogged down next door and are now more aggressive in flaunting the rest of the world with their nuclear program.  Iran turned out to be the big winner from the Iraqi invasion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dmac</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13432</link>
		<dc:creator>dmac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13432</guid>
		<description>...&quot;but his regime was a countervailing force to Iran.&quot; 

Specious argument, and illogical as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;&#8221;but his regime was a countervailing force to Iran.&#8221; </p>
<p>Specious argument, and illogical as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13430</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13430</guid>
		<description>Of course I&#039;m being facetious - this is an argument that could go on for days...yes, you&#039;re entitled to be gloomy, of course...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course I&#8217;m being facetious &#8211; this is an argument that could go on for days&#8230;yes, you&#8217;re entitled to be gloomy, of course&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13429</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 02:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13429</guid>
		<description>Well, and Stalin kept things together nicely in the Soviet Union, didn&#039;t he? Of course, like Hussein, he had to murder his own countrymen indiscriminately, but hey, the Soviet Union was a whole lot more stable than Russia is now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, and Stalin kept things together nicely in the Soviet Union, didn&#8217;t he? Of course, like Hussein, he had to murder his own countrymen indiscriminately, but hey, the Soviet Union was a whole lot more stable than Russia is now&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13426</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 01:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13426</guid>
		<description>The post was in response to Mason, who does seem to advocate implanting democracy through military force.

As for changing the dynamic of the Middle East:  it has changed for the worse.  The threat posed by Hussein to American interests was minimal, and we replaced it with a much larger threat:  expanded Iranian influence in Iraq and throughout the Middle East.  Say what you will about Hussein, but his regime was a countervailing force to Iran.  I don’t see the point in losing American lives and treasure to remove a dictator when the result is to strengthen an even more worrisome foe, which has (or will soon have) real weapons of mass destruction.

As for spreading gloom and doom:  I call them as I see them (and, apparently, as the soldiers on the ground also see it).  As Ronald Reagan said, facts are stubborn things, and the situation there is indisputably gloomy.  The only way to find a solution to the problem is to look at it with clear eyes, and if the result is a gloomy one, then so be it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The post was in response to Mason, who does seem to advocate implanting democracy through military force.</p>
<p>As for changing the dynamic of the Middle East:  it has changed for the worse.  The threat posed by Hussein to American interests was minimal, and we replaced it with a much larger threat:  expanded Iranian influence in Iraq and throughout the Middle East.  Say what you will about Hussein, but his regime was a countervailing force to Iran.  I don’t see the point in losing American lives and treasure to remove a dictator when the result is to strengthen an even more worrisome foe, which has (or will soon have) real weapons of mass destruction.</p>
<p>As for spreading gloom and doom:  I call them as I see them (and, apparently, as the soldiers on the ground also see it).  As Ronald Reagan said, facts are stubborn things, and the situation there is indisputably gloomy.  The only way to find a solution to the problem is to look at it with clear eyes, and if the result is a gloomy one, then so be it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13424</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Mar 2006 00:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13424</guid>
		<description>No, peter, not to force our form of government on them - to change the dynamic in the Middle East by ridding it of a long-term threat to security and an indisputedly evil tyrant.  If nothing else good comes of the Iraq adventure, we did put Saddam out of business.

We can&#039;t do this everywhere, of course - but Bush was right that the status quo in the Middle East had to change - how soon you seem to have forgotten what happened in Lebanon, and the voluntary disclosure of Libya&#039;s WMD program, along with its dismantlement.

I know you&#039;re an opponent of the war, but if you just want to spread doom and gloom, as I&#039;ve said before, I don&#039;t think that&#039;s very productive.  Suit yourself, however....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, peter, not to force our form of government on them &#8211; to change the dynamic in the Middle East by ridding it of a long-term threat to security and an indisputedly evil tyrant.  If nothing else good comes of the Iraq adventure, we did put Saddam out of business.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t do this everywhere, of course &#8211; but Bush was right that the status quo in the Middle East had to change &#8211; how soon you seem to have forgotten what happened in Lebanon, and the voluntary disclosure of Libya&#8217;s WMD program, along with its dismantlement.</p>
<p>I know you&#8217;re an opponent of the war, but if you just want to spread doom and gloom, as I&#8217;ve said before, I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s very productive.  Suit yourself, however&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13421</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13421</guid>
		<description>So you think that our government ought to be in the business of invading other countries to force our form of government on them?

While it is easy to recommend staying the course from a computer keyboard, the soldiers who are actually in Iraq consider the war to be unwinnable, and 72% think we should withdraw within a year (29% say immediately):

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002076066</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you think that our government ought to be in the business of invading other countries to force our form of government on them?</p>
<p>While it is easy to recommend staying the course from a computer keyboard, the soldiers who are actually in Iraq consider the war to be unwinnable, and 72% think we should withdraw within a year (29% say immediately):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002076066" rel="nofollow">http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002076066</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/comment-page-1/#comment-13420</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2006/02/28/buckley-we-did-win-sort-of/#comment-13420</guid>
		<description>Mason, I&#039;m all for your idea of the war, and I wish it had been framed in different terms, too...something Christopher Hitchens, among others, has been quite eloquent on.  I guess all the negativity is having an effect on me...but there&#039;s the rub for the Bush administration - if even hardcore war supporters like me are starting to get the blues, that means Bush needs to (yet again) go on the offensive in terms of selling the war and our objectives...he was doing a good job, but the NSA story and the Cheney non-story seem to have got him sidetracked, to say nothing of the bombing of the shrine...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mason, I&#8217;m all for your idea of the war, and I wish it had been framed in different terms, too&#8230;something Christopher Hitchens, among others, has been quite eloquent on.  I guess all the negativity is having an effect on me&#8230;but there&#8217;s the rub for the Bush administration &#8211; if even hardcore war supporters like me are starting to get the blues, that means Bush needs to (yet again) go on the offensive in terms of selling the war and our objectives&#8230;he was doing a good job, but the NSA story and the Cheney non-story seem to have got him sidetracked, to say nothing of the bombing of the shrine&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

