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	<title>Comments on: A Winning Agenda: Part I &#8211; Immigration Reform</title>
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	<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/</link>
	<description>Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree</description>
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		<title>By: Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Meese On Immigration</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-31503</link>
		<dc:creator>Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Meese On Immigration</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 May 2006 17:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-31503</guid>
		<description>[...] My own position on the issue was laid out here, and I see no need to change it: Here, then is a modest proposal for the issue of immigration in the near future: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My own position on the issue was laid out here, and I see no need to change it: Here, then is a modest proposal for the issue of immigration in the near future: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Major POTUS Speech On Immigration</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-24047</link>
		<dc:creator>Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Major POTUS Speech On Immigration</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 May 2006 15:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-24047</guid>
		<description>[...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More 2006 Warning Signs</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15503</link>
		<dc:creator>Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More 2006 Warning Signs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-15503</guid>
		<description>[...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More Republican Agenda Advice</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15369</link>
		<dc:creator>Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More Republican Agenda Advice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Apr 2006 12:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-15369</guid>
		<description>[...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your ownsite. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Winning Agenda: Part II - Free Trade</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15187</link>
		<dc:creator>Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Winning Agenda: Part II - Free Trade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 18:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-15187</guid>
		<description>[...] (Part I - Immigration Reform can be found here) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Part I &#8211; Immigration Reform can be found here) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Shining City On A Hill Or Fortress America?</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-15080</link>
		<dc:creator>Decision &#8216;08 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Shining City On A Hill Or Fortress America?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-15080</guid>
		<description>[...] That&#8217;s the choice framed by the editors of the Wall Street Journal when they ask if America is to belong to Ronald Reagan or Tom Tancredo. Last weekend, I suggested Republicans adopt an agenda with both a long and short view of the immigration issue. The WSJ agrees: The immediate danger is that Republicans will ignore their longer-term interests by passing a punitive, and poll-driven, anti-immigration bill this election year. Any bill that merely harasses immigrants and employers, and stacks more cops on the border, may win cheers in the right-wing blogosphere. However, it will do nothing to address the economic incentives that will continue to exist for poor migrants to come to America to feed their families. And it will make permanent enemies of millions of Hispanics, without doing anything to draw illegals out of the shadows and help them assimilate into the mainstream of American culture and citizenship. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] That&#8217;s the choice framed by the editors of the Wall Street Journal when they ask if America is to belong to Ronald Reagan or Tom Tancredo. Last weekend, I suggested Republicans adopt an agenda with both a long and short view of the immigration issue. The WSJ agrees: The immediate danger is that Republicans will ignore their longer-term interests by passing a punitive, and poll-driven, anti-immigration bill this election year. Any bill that merely harasses immigrants and employers, and stacks more cops on the border, may win cheers in the right-wing blogosphere. However, it will do nothing to address the economic incentives that will continue to exist for poor migrants to come to America to feed their families. And it will make permanent enemies of millions of Hispanics, without doing anything to draw illegals out of the shadows and help them assimilate into the mainstream of American culture and citizenship. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pamela</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-14886</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-14886</guid>
		<description>I am increasingly annoyed with those who deliberately confound &quot;immigrant&quot; with &quot;alien&quot;.  Those demonstrators (and I am flabbergasted at the chutzpah of these new &quot;untouchables&quot;) who chant &quot;Mehico, Mehico, Mehico&quot; and wave non-USA flags are not interested in becoming IMMIGRANTS - those who wish to be what we used to call &quot;Americans&quot;.  These aliens are literally INVADERS - determined to TAKE what they wish and to REMAIN what they are - espanol-speaking (and we sure better learn to speak espanol too!!!!!!!!) reconquistadors.
All in all, I&#039;ll mow my own lawn and wash my own dishes, thank you very much.
And for those who truly wish to become part of America, welcome.
To you others, here is the revised Pledge just for you hordes of invaders:

I pledge allegiance
To the flags
Of the diverse states of the Americas,
And for all the countries
For which they stand,
Many nations,
Bajo Dios,
With Yankee dollars for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am increasingly annoyed with those who deliberately confound &#8220;immigrant&#8221; with &#8220;alien&#8221;.  Those demonstrators (and I am flabbergasted at the chutzpah of these new &#8220;untouchables&#8221;) who chant &#8220;Mehico, Mehico, Mehico&#8221; and wave non-USA flags are not interested in becoming IMMIGRANTS &#8211; those who wish to be what we used to call &#8220;Americans&#8221;.  These aliens are literally INVADERS &#8211; determined to TAKE what they wish and to REMAIN what they are &#8211; espanol-speaking (and we sure better learn to speak espanol too!!!!!!!!) reconquistadors.<br />
All in all, I&#8217;ll mow my own lawn and wash my own dishes, thank you very much.<br />
And for those who truly wish to become part of America, welcome.<br />
To you others, here is the revised Pledge just for you hordes of invaders:</p>
<p>I pledge allegiance<br />
To the flags<br />
Of the diverse states of the Americas,<br />
And for all the countries<br />
For which they stand,<br />
Many nations,<br />
Bajo Dios,<br />
With Yankee dollars for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Oyster</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-14877</link>
		<dc:creator>Oyster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-14877</guid>
		<description>I tend to agree with Jake in that the phrase &quot;jobs Americans won&#039;t do&quot; didn&#039;t just spring up out of nowhere.  There are jobs that Americans don&#039;t &quot;want&quot; to do, but that&#039;s far different from &quot;jobs they won&#039;t do&quot;.  Because over decades they&#039;ve been conditioned toward this thinking.  It&#039;s at least partly because they&#039;re not willing to be exploited like illegal immigrants are for those menial jobs.  This country thrives on competition at all levels and that competition is gone when there is someone who is willing to accept rock bottom or below wages.  Why would I compete to collect garbage for minimum wage?

Also, our government puts a lot of consideration into a visa applicant with social credentials and education, but little or nothing into an applicant who is merely willing to work hard.  They&#039;re legally admitting a glut of people taking up the jobs we do want to do with H1B visas and ignoring the rest.  Our government doesn&#039;t put a value on simple hard work.  Instead, they just ignore that the flood across the border of illegal labor is the result of their own policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to agree with Jake in that the phrase &#8220;jobs Americans won&#8217;t do&#8221; didn&#8217;t just spring up out of nowhere.  There are jobs that Americans don&#8217;t &#8220;want&#8221; to do, but that&#8217;s far different from &#8220;jobs they won&#8217;t do&#8221;.  Because over decades they&#8217;ve been conditioned toward this thinking.  It&#8217;s at least partly because they&#8217;re not willing to be exploited like illegal immigrants are for those menial jobs.  This country thrives on competition at all levels and that competition is gone when there is someone who is willing to accept rock bottom or below wages.  Why would I compete to collect garbage for minimum wage?</p>
<p>Also, our government puts a lot of consideration into a visa applicant with social credentials and education, but little or nothing into an applicant who is merely willing to work hard.  They&#8217;re legally admitting a glut of people taking up the jobs we do want to do with H1B visas and ignoring the rest.  Our government doesn&#8217;t put a value on simple hard work.  Instead, they just ignore that the flood across the border of illegal labor is the result of their own policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-14869</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 04:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-14869</guid>
		<description>Jake, we&#039;re far from pure capitalism, as I&#039;m sure you&#039;re aware.  In fact, we&#039;re moving towards protectionism at an alarming rate, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Unitedstates&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;only rank in a tie for 9th in the Heritage Foundation&#039;s Index of Economic Freedom&lt;/a&gt;.

In any event, I appreciate your comments - for a paper that backs up some of my assertion re:the importance of immigrants to the economy, I refer you to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/handbook/hb107-62.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this paper by the libertiarian Cato Institute&lt;/a&gt; - the conclusions are much more generous than mine, but I agree with much of what it says...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jake, we&#8217;re far from pure capitalism, as I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re aware.  In fact, we&#8217;re moving towards protectionism at an alarming rate, and <a href="http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/country.cfm?id=Unitedstates" rel="nofollow">only rank in a tie for 9th in the Heritage Foundation&#8217;s Index of Economic Freedom</a>.</p>
<p>In any event, I appreciate your comments &#8211; for a paper that backs up some of my assertion re:the importance of immigrants to the economy, I refer you to <a href="http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/handbook/hb107-62.pdf" rel="nofollow">this paper by the libertiarian Cato Institute</a> &#8211; the conclusions are much more generous than mine, but I agree with much of what it says&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Jacobsen</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2006/03/26/a-winning-agenda-part-i-immigration-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-14867</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Jacobsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 03:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/?p=3557#comment-14867</guid>
		<description>I question priori #1 and #2.

#1.  We need a steady flow of immigrants to power the engine of our economy.

Do we?  I mean can you back this up with something other than an asshat CEO whining about not having timely access to cheap slave labor?

#2  We must recognize the historical role of immigrants in the idea and reality of America as a nation apart from all others.

While undoubtedly true that America gained massively from her earlier experiments with immigration there were also massive downsides and costs.  Mostly to middle and lower class citizens, much like today.

As a blue collar guy there seems to be an argument that goes like this...Since we did it before we must keep doing it no matter what.  Well is that true?

Do we require the enormous amounts of immigration we currently have, both legal and illegal?  I tend to think no, I think it serves a variety of purposes none of which are terribly helpful to the averge American.

It tends to drive wages down and hinder the assimilation process.  It tends to drag down the quality of education irrespective of however many dollars you throw at the problem and I think it&#039;s demeaning to hear people such as our president display such contempt for the American people and it&#039;s workers.

&quot;Jobs Americans won&#039;t do&quot; is simply one of the most singularly pernicious phrases I&#039;ve ever heard.  Have you relly considered the import of that phrase?  Have we as a nation truly become worthless?

As a person who has taken tremendous prde in doing a dangerous and dirty job I assure you there is no shortage of Americans willing to do these jobs, I know, I do one.  What there is is a shortage of companies willing to pay good wages.  Again, I&#039;ve seen it.  

I am a believer in capitalism, but pure capitalism does have a predatory side.  Whenever you hear a CEO or the president whining about cheap labor take a moment and read about the formation of IBP beef, most instructive I assure you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I question priori #1 and #2.</p>
<p>#1.  We need a steady flow of immigrants to power the engine of our economy.</p>
<p>Do we?  I mean can you back this up with something other than an asshat CEO whining about not having timely access to cheap slave labor?</p>
<p>#2  We must recognize the historical role of immigrants in the idea and reality of America as a nation apart from all others.</p>
<p>While undoubtedly true that America gained massively from her earlier experiments with immigration there were also massive downsides and costs.  Mostly to middle and lower class citizens, much like today.</p>
<p>As a blue collar guy there seems to be an argument that goes like this&#8230;Since we did it before we must keep doing it no matter what.  Well is that true?</p>
<p>Do we require the enormous amounts of immigration we currently have, both legal and illegal?  I tend to think no, I think it serves a variety of purposes none of which are terribly helpful to the averge American.</p>
<p>It tends to drive wages down and hinder the assimilation process.  It tends to drag down the quality of education irrespective of however many dollars you throw at the problem and I think it&#8217;s demeaning to hear people such as our president display such contempt for the American people and it&#8217;s workers.</p>
<p>&#8220;Jobs Americans won&#8217;t do&#8221; is simply one of the most singularly pernicious phrases I&#8217;ve ever heard.  Have you relly considered the import of that phrase?  Have we as a nation truly become worthless?</p>
<p>As a person who has taken tremendous prde in doing a dangerous and dirty job I assure you there is no shortage of Americans willing to do these jobs, I know, I do one.  What there is is a shortage of companies willing to pay good wages.  Again, I&#8217;ve seen it.  </p>
<p>I am a believer in capitalism, but pure capitalism does have a predatory side.  Whenever you hear a CEO or the president whining about cheap labor take a moment and read about the formation of IBP beef, most instructive I assure you.</p>
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