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	<title>Comments on: The Wrong Thing To Say</title>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-339002</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-339002</guid>
		<description>Buckner, not Bucker</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buckner, not Bucker</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-339001</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-339001</guid>
		<description>I was at Shea for game seven in 1986 (not the Billy Bucker game -- that was game six) -- I&#039;m not a big Mets fan, so I had mixed feelings about seeing the Red Sox lose -- but as they say, any team can have a bad century...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was at Shea for game seven in 1986 (not the Billy Bucker game &#8212; that was game six) &#8212; I&#8217;m not a big Mets fan, so I had mixed feelings about seeing the Red Sox lose &#8212; but as they say, any team can have a bad century&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338998</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338998</guid>
		<description>All in good fun.  I live in MA but spend lots of time in NY.  Maybe it&#039;s the circles I travel in but I have yet to come across anyone I would classify as a &quot;Red Sox Hater&quot;.  And, so right you are, September has often been the cruelest month!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All in good fun.  I live in MA but spend lots of time in NY.  Maybe it&#8217;s the circles I travel in but I have yet to come across anyone I would classify as a &#8220;Red Sox Hater&#8221;.  And, so right you are, September has often been the cruelest month!</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338986</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338986</guid>
		<description>And I can understand how Bucky Dent got his middle name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I can understand how Bucky Dent got his middle name.</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338984</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338984</guid>
		<description>Having spent four great years in Massachusetts (Amherst and Martha&#039;s Vineyard), I&#039;m not a Red Sox hater -- so let&#039;s just say that September has not historically been a kind month to Boston sports fans --</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having spent four great years in Massachusetts (Amherst and Martha&#8217;s Vineyard), I&#8217;m not a Red Sox hater &#8212; so let&#8217;s just say that September has not historically been a kind month to Boston sports fans &#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338979</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 20:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338979</guid>
		<description>Keep dreaming on Sox - Yankees.  I was around in 1978 (at school with a pile of obnoxious Yankees fans, oh, wait, is there any other kind?) and this Yankees team is no comparison to that one.  Remember, they have A-Rod, the bad luck charm for every professional team he&#039;s ever played on.  My friends who are Yankees fans (I have liberal friends too!) admit they are a flawed team and are quite worried about the Angels in the post season mostly because Yankees pitching is thin.  As a conciliatory gesture I would point out that the lead is really just 4 (in the all-important-loss-column) as the Sox have played two more games to this point.  This weekend should settle things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep dreaming on Sox &#8211; Yankees.  I was around in 1978 (at school with a pile of obnoxious Yankees fans, oh, wait, is there any other kind?) and this Yankees team is no comparison to that one.  Remember, they have A-Rod, the bad luck charm for every professional team he&#8217;s ever played on.  My friends who are Yankees fans (I have liberal friends too!) admit they are a flawed team and are quite worried about the Angels in the post season mostly because Yankees pitching is thin.  As a conciliatory gesture I would point out that the lead is really just 4 (in the all-important-loss-column) as the Sox have played two more games to this point.  This weekend should settle things.</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338942</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338942</guid>
		<description>I certainly am not accusing him of lying (nor did the Times, incidentally), and if I were a Senator, I would have voted for his confirmation.  

However, asking him for his views on Iraq is not unlike asking Joe Torre if the Yankees will overtake the Red Sox even though they are five games behind.  (They will, incidentally.  It only remains to be seen who will be this year&#039;s Bucky Dent or Aaron Boone).  Or asking Lee Scott, the CEO of Wal-Mart, if they will take share from Target.  You can&#039;t be an effective manager if you don&#039;t have a can-do, optimistic spirit, and if you expressed serious doubts about the success or feasibility of your enterprise, you will be unable to lead those who follow you.  Patreus is heavily invested in achieving some modicum of success in Iraq, and it would be naive to expect his testimony not to reflect that.

The Senate -- and, more broadly, the American public -- has to evaluate the situation in Iraq from different viewpoints, all of which are expressed by people who have a vested interest in things being resolved one way or another.  The op-ed piece is an example of accentuating only the positive, and its timing is an additional doubt-creator.  Patreus&#039;s views should be balanced against those of others who could be expected to be more objective, such as the GAO report.

I haven&#039;t seen the moveon.org ad, but from the way it has been described it seems both offensive and counter-productive.   However, the howling about the ad from the right is a lot of crap.  The right wing has often accused decorated war veterans of betrayal and treason when it served their political purposes: John Kerry, John Murtha, George McGovern, Max Cleland, and others.  Bringing it up in the House hearing -- when none of the Congressmen had anything to do with the ad -- is a smokescreen, and a pretty thin one at that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly am not accusing him of lying (nor did the Times, incidentally), and if I were a Senator, I would have voted for his confirmation.  </p>
<p>However, asking him for his views on Iraq is not unlike asking Joe Torre if the Yankees will overtake the Red Sox even though they are five games behind.  (They will, incidentally.  It only remains to be seen who will be this year&#8217;s Bucky Dent or Aaron Boone).  Or asking Lee Scott, the CEO of Wal-Mart, if they will take share from Target.  You can&#8217;t be an effective manager if you don&#8217;t have a can-do, optimistic spirit, and if you expressed serious doubts about the success or feasibility of your enterprise, you will be unable to lead those who follow you.  Patreus is heavily invested in achieving some modicum of success in Iraq, and it would be naive to expect his testimony not to reflect that.</p>
<p>The Senate &#8212; and, more broadly, the American public &#8212; has to evaluate the situation in Iraq from different viewpoints, all of which are expressed by people who have a vested interest in things being resolved one way or another.  The op-ed piece is an example of accentuating only the positive, and its timing is an additional doubt-creator.  Patreus&#8217;s views should be balanced against those of others who could be expected to be more objective, such as the GAO report.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t seen the moveon.org ad, but from the way it has been described it seems both offensive and counter-productive.   However, the howling about the ad from the right is a lot of crap.  The right wing has often accused decorated war veterans of betrayal and treason when it served their political purposes: John Kerry, John Murtha, George McGovern, Max Cleland, and others.  Bringing it up in the House hearing &#8212; when none of the Congressmen had anything to do with the ad &#8212; is a smokescreen, and a pretty thin one at that.</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338939</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:41:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338939</guid>
		<description>Ok.  So why raise this now?  Why not withhold his vote during confirmation?  And what, exactly, is he accusing him of, lying?  Then he should do so in a less cowardly way.  To accuse someone of asserting something that later proved not to be factual is a timid, and cowardly, way of impugning character and motivations.  I have, in my life that approximates the length of yours, uttered, asserted, and said things that later proved to be not factual.  The only time they rose to the level of lies were on those occasions that I knew of the falsehood in advance and uttered it for the purpose of deceit.  Is that what Senator Reid is asserting?  Then he is derelict in his duty for voting to confirm the man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok.  So why raise this now?  Why not withhold his vote during confirmation?  And what, exactly, is he accusing him of, lying?  Then he should do so in a less cowardly way.  To accuse someone of asserting something that later proved not to be factual is a timid, and cowardly, way of impugning character and motivations.  I have, in my life that approximates the length of yours, uttered, asserted, and said things that later proved to be not factual.  The only time they rose to the level of lies were on those occasions that I knew of the falsehood in advance and uttered it for the purpose of deceit.  Is that what Senator Reid is asserting?  Then he is derelict in his duty for voting to confirm the man.</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338925</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338925</guid>
		<description>Presumably Reid was referring to the op-ed piece Patreus wrote in the Washington Post six weeks before the 2004 election which described progress in Iraq in far more glowing terms than proved to be the case, and gave a glowing review of the training of Iraqi forces (which Patreus was then in charge of).

The fact that he wrote an editorial shortly before a close election which was politically helpful to the GOP -- and which turned out to be wrong -- is a legitimate reason to have some doubts as to the objectivity of his testimony, especially given the contrast between his testimony and that of other observers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably Reid was referring to the op-ed piece Patreus wrote in the Washington Post six weeks before the 2004 election which described progress in Iraq in far more glowing terms than proved to be the case, and gave a glowing review of the training of Iraqi forces (which Patreus was then in charge of).</p>
<p>The fact that he wrote an editorial shortly before a close election which was politically helpful to the GOP &#8212; and which turned out to be wrong &#8212; is a legitimate reason to have some doubts as to the objectivity of his testimony, especially given the contrast between his testimony and that of other observers.</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-338910</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2007/09/11/the-wrong-thing-to-say/#comment-338910</guid>
		<description>More argument by soundbite, silly and puerile, a bit of &quot;sticks and stones may break my bones...&quot; schoolyard stuff really.  It is clear to all thinking persons that the advert is: 

1. Inaccurate.
2. Offensive.
3. Wrong (morally and factually).

I won&#039;t engage in the counter-smear of holding the Democratic leadership responsible for what moveon.org say.  Cheers to Senators Lieberman and Kerry for defending the man who&#039;s appointment was, by the way, confirmed unanimously by the Senate.

Jeers to Harry Reid, Majority Leader in the US Senate, for this:

&quot;He&#039;s made a number of statements over the years that have not proven to be factual.&quot;

Really?  Where was Mr. Reid with this charge when the General was confirmed?  To what, specifically, does he refer?

To pile on with others: Iraq is a very important subject and one that we should leave no stone unturned to discover the right course of action.  To that end the General should be questioned thoroughly, as should others.  Falsely accusing the man of treason is, at best, a poor and counterproductive way to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More argument by soundbite, silly and puerile, a bit of &#8220;sticks and stones may break my bones&#8230;&#8221; schoolyard stuff really.  It is clear to all thinking persons that the advert is: </p>
<p>1. Inaccurate.<br />
2. Offensive.<br />
3. Wrong (morally and factually).</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t engage in the counter-smear of holding the Democratic leadership responsible for what moveon.org say.  Cheers to Senators Lieberman and Kerry for defending the man who&#8217;s appointment was, by the way, confirmed unanimously by the Senate.</p>
<p>Jeers to Harry Reid, Majority Leader in the US Senate, for this:</p>
<p>&#8220;He&#8217;s made a number of statements over the years that have not proven to be factual.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really?  Where was Mr. Reid with this charge when the General was confirmed?  To what, specifically, does he refer?</p>
<p>To pile on with others: Iraq is a very important subject and one that we should leave no stone unturned to discover the right course of action.  To that end the General should be questioned thoroughly, as should others.  Falsely accusing the man of treason is, at best, a poor and counterproductive way to do so.</p>
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