Comments on: More On The PPA http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/ Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree Tue, 09 Feb 2010 03:29:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Ryan http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-484282 Ryan Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:35:36 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-484282 "the real goal is to revoke NAFTA completely and climb under a protectionist shell" And then what? The problem with this particular conspiracy theory is it doesn't really make any sense. Democrats are using trade fears to pry out other political victories. I think it's unfortunate but I'm not crazy. Pelosi is stalling the Colombia trade pact so she can make the Republicans look bad for not including other things that Americans want done. She's not actually opposed to the Colombia bill any more than I am, and I have seen precious little evidence that she is as "protectionist" as you insist on claiming. Bob: Since John McCain was involved in so much horrible war and was tortured himself, you'd think he'd been less ecstatic about starting so many wars and letting the President torture folks. Apparently not. “the real goal is to revoke NAFTA completely and climb under a protectionist shell”

And then what? The problem with this particular conspiracy theory is it doesn’t really make any sense. Democrats are using trade fears to pry out other political victories. I think it’s unfortunate but I’m not crazy. Pelosi is stalling the Colombia trade pact so she can make the Republicans look bad for not including other things that Americans want done. She’s not actually opposed to the Colombia bill any more than I am, and I have seen precious little evidence that she is as “protectionist” as you insist on claiming.

Bob: Since John McCain was involved in so much horrible war and was tortured himself, you’d think he’d been less ecstatic about starting so many wars and letting the President torture folks. Apparently not.

]]> By: Peter http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-484074 Peter Sat, 12 Apr 2008 23:27:47 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-484074 Another editorial in the Times today which says that if you want to help American workers, then pass the Colombian trade pact. Also the lead editorial in this week's Economist - concerning how the American economic slowdown will play out (lengthy but shallow, in their view) and how it will affect other economies (not as bad as feared) -- raises the possibility that recession in the US will embolden protectionist voices, not only regarding Colombia but also for the next Doha round. Another editorial in the Times today which says that if you want to help American workers, then pass the Colombian trade pact.

Also the lead editorial in this week’s Economist – concerning how the American economic slowdown will play out (lengthy but shallow, in their view) and how it will affect other economies (not as bad as feared) — raises the possibility that recession in the US will embolden protectionist voices, not only regarding Colombia but also for the next Doha round.

]]> By: willied8 http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483966 willied8 Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:28:01 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483966 obama is just a black racist sorry thats what i think and he will run us in the ground with new taxs and he does not have a plan of his own obama is just a black racist sorry thats what i think and he will run us in the ground with new taxs and he does not have a plan of his own

]]> By: Mark http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483796 Mark Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:12:44 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483796 Furthermore, the fact that the Colombian agreement contains just the kind of sops to labor and environmentalists that the NAFTA opponents CLAIM they want to insert into the agreement shows that this is just total crap - the real goal is to revoke NAFTA completely and climb under a protectionist shell. We'll just pretend the world doesn't exist! Yay!... Furthermore, the fact that the Colombian agreement contains just the kind of sops to labor and environmentalists that the NAFTA opponents CLAIM they want to insert into the agreement shows that this is just total crap – the real goal is to revoke NAFTA completely and climb under a protectionist shell. We’ll just pretend the world doesn’t exist! Yay!…

]]> By: Mark http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483795 Mark Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:10:29 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483795 Ryan, you say a Democrat would not opt out of NAFTA, that it's just rhetoric, and yet Nancy Pelosi just killed the Colombian Free Trade Agreement for no good reason. Sorry, the evidence is that the Democrats will at least TRY to opt out of NAFTA, given the events of the last few days, if given a good opportunity... Ryan, you say a Democrat would not opt out of NAFTA, that it’s just rhetoric, and yet Nancy Pelosi just killed the Colombian Free Trade Agreement for no good reason.

Sorry, the evidence is that the Democrats will at least TRY to opt out of NAFTA, given the events of the last few days, if given a good opportunity…

]]> By: Bob from Ohio http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483717 Bob from Ohio Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:10:05 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483717 Ryan, You are so right about McCain. Being tortured for four years in a POW camp would make anyone love war. I mean, he was a fighter pilot. Darn warmonger! Ryan,

You are so right about McCain. Being tortured for four years in a POW camp would make anyone love war.

I mean, he was a fighter pilot. Darn warmonger!

]]> By: Ryan http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483714 Ryan Fri, 11 Apr 2008 17:55:14 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483714 Oh, come now. A Democrat is no more going to opt of NAFTA than John McCain actually hates war. Everyone says things they don't mean. I agree with TMS that that's a woeful state of affairs, but we don't have to pretend undue credulity. Oh, come now. A Democrat is no more going to opt of NAFTA than John McCain actually hates war. Everyone says things they don’t mean. I agree with TMS that that’s a woeful state of affairs, but we don’t have to pretend undue credulity.

]]> By: Bob from Ohio http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483679 Bob from Ohio Fri, 11 Apr 2008 16:25:12 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483679 I am confused. I thought that the coming Democratic presidency would repair our tattered relations around the world. Screwing Columbia and opting out of NAFTA seems to contradict that theme. I am confused. I thought that the coming Democratic presidency would repair our tattered relations around the world.

Screwing Columbia and opting out of NAFTA seems to contradict that theme.

]]> By: too many steves http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483642 too many steves Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:12:50 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483642 Not to get too crunchy about this, but what you are talking about is real leadership, not the superficial variety that often gets the play in the media and among the populace. Taking the country in the direction it wants to go is not leadership. Leadership is taking the country in the direction it needs to go. The former is a form of pandering, the latter is very difficult and rare. Obama is praised for his leadership ability, McCain for being Mr. Straight-Talk. I find both unremarkable in the sense that they, so far, act like run-of-the-mill politicians. Not to get too crunchy about this, but what you are talking about is real leadership, not the superficial variety that often gets the play in the media and among the populace.

Taking the country in the direction it wants to go is not leadership. Leadership is taking the country in the direction it needs to go. The former is a form of pandering, the latter is very difficult and rare. Obama is praised for his leadership ability, McCain for being Mr. Straight-Talk. I find both unremarkable in the sense that they, so far, act like run-of-the-mill politicians.

]]> By: Ryan http://informedspeculation.com/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/comment-page-1/#comment-483636 Ryan Fri, 11 Apr 2008 15:06:56 +0000 http://decision08.net/2008/04/10/more-on-the-ppa/#comment-483636 But it doesn't have to be this way, right? Obama and McCain both represent the potential for a real change of rhetoric. Obama sort of personifies internationalism and globalism, while McCain is a guy who has long staked out a position as a sensible immigration reformer. That they are both choosing to ignore their better angels in return for political gain is pretty dispiriting. On the other hand, I guess they wouldn't be where they are right now if they hadn't done precisely this set of things. So that's dispiriting too. But it doesn’t have to be this way, right? Obama and McCain both represent the potential for a real change of rhetoric. Obama sort of personifies internationalism and globalism, while McCain is a guy who has long staked out a position as a sensible immigration reformer. That they are both choosing to ignore their better angels in return for political gain is pretty dispiriting. On the other hand, I guess they wouldn’t be where they are right now if they hadn’t done precisely this set of things. So that’s dispiriting too.

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