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	<title>Comments on: To The Surprise Of Exactly Not A Single Living Soul&#8230;</title>
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	<description>Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree</description>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497157</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 03:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wrong.  Clapton is God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong.  Clapton is God.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Vance</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497114</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Vance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 01:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/#comment-497114</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;voting against Obama does not make you a racist&lt;/i&gt;

God is love. Love is blind. Stevie Wonder is blind, therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>voting against Obama does not make you a racist</i></p>
<p>God is love. Love is blind. Stevie Wonder is blind, therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497080</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 00:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/#comment-497080</guid>
		<description>We are in agreement then, voting against Obama does not make you a racist, voting against Clinton does not make you a misogynist, and voting against McCain does not make you an ageist.  Glad we cleared that up!

Can we now agree that in the selection of the party&#039;s candidate &quot;democracy&quot; is vastly overrated?  Obama may not be strong in the way that Clinton is, and vice-versa, but he is the candidate the Democrats want to put forward as their candidate for the presidency.  There is no doubt about that, is there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are in agreement then, voting against Obama does not make you a racist, voting against Clinton does not make you a misogynist, and voting against McCain does not make you an ageist.  Glad we cleared that up!</p>
<p>Can we now agree that in the selection of the party&#8217;s candidate &#8220;democracy&#8221; is vastly overrated?  Obama may not be strong in the way that Clinton is, and vice-versa, but he is the candidate the Democrats want to put forward as their candidate for the presidency.  There is no doubt about that, is there?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497059</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/#comment-497059</guid>
		<description>Hmm... that seems like a misquote to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230; that seems like a misquote to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Vance</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497049</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Vance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/#comment-497049</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There is a traditional divide in the Democratic Party between &lt;b&gt;blacks&lt;/b&gt;, wealthy liberals, and blue collar workers... Those divides doesn’t have to have anything to do with race&lt;/i&gt;   

I think this is one of those &quot;koan&quot; things the Buddhists down the street keep fussing about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There is a traditional divide in the Democratic Party between <b>blacks</b>, wealthy liberals, and blue collar workers&#8230; Those divides doesn’t have to have anything to do with race</i>   </p>
<p>I think this is one of those &#8220;koan&#8221; things the Buddhists down the street keep fussing about.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497048</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 22:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/#comment-497048</guid>
		<description>My two cents:

1.  This racism card is overplayed.  The idea that white people who don&#039;t vote for Obama are racist is as absurd as the idea that women who don&#039;t vote for Hillary are insufficiently feminist.  Hillary annihilated Obama in West Virginia because she has positioned herself as the candidate of older, whiter, bluer-collar voters.  There is a traditional divide in the Democratic Party between blacks, wealthy liberals, and blue collar workers.  That Clinton and Obama represent those divides doesn&#039;t have to have anything to do with race.  We do ourselves no favors by pretending it does.

2.  Obama will almost certainly have enough superdelegates by next Tuesday to clinch victory with a win in Oregon.  He&#039;s adding them at a rate of like 5-10 a day at this point.  The Edwards endorsement tonight should be very influential as well.  Also, there are 8 members of the so-called Pelosi Club who will be free to endorse him as soon as he takes a majority of pledged delegates next Tuesday.  This one will be finished then.  Harping on and on about Florida and Michigan is a distraction; the fastest way to get them seated is to get Clinton out of the race.  A victorious Obama will be happy to seat those delegations.  And finally, the idea that &quot;no matter what happens with MI and FL’s delegates, their popular vote should/will be considered&quot; is completely insane.  I know you&#039;re a Republican shill, Chris, but Michigan&#039;s popular vote *should* be considered?  Really?  With Obama not even on the ballot?  If I were in the habit of making up silly odds that don&#039;t bear on reality at all, I might give that a 1/50 chance.  Since I&#039;m not, I&#039;ll give it the odds it actually merits: 0.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My two cents:</p>
<p>1.  This racism card is overplayed.  The idea that white people who don&#8217;t vote for Obama are racist is as absurd as the idea that women who don&#8217;t vote for Hillary are insufficiently feminist.  Hillary annihilated Obama in West Virginia because she has positioned herself as the candidate of older, whiter, bluer-collar voters.  There is a traditional divide in the Democratic Party between blacks, wealthy liberals, and blue collar workers.  That Clinton and Obama represent those divides doesn&#8217;t have to have anything to do with race.  We do ourselves no favors by pretending it does.</p>
<p>2.  Obama will almost certainly have enough superdelegates by next Tuesday to clinch victory with a win in Oregon.  He&#8217;s adding them at a rate of like 5-10 a day at this point.  The Edwards endorsement tonight should be very influential as well.  Also, there are 8 members of the so-called Pelosi Club who will be free to endorse him as soon as he takes a majority of pledged delegates next Tuesday.  This one will be finished then.  Harping on and on about Florida and Michigan is a distraction; the fastest way to get them seated is to get Clinton out of the race.  A victorious Obama will be happy to seat those delegations.  And finally, the idea that &#8220;no matter what happens with MI and FL’s delegates, their popular vote should/will be considered&#8221; is completely insane.  I know you&#8217;re a Republican shill, Chris, but Michigan&#8217;s popular vote *should* be considered?  Really?  With Obama not even on the ballot?  If I were in the habit of making up silly odds that don&#8217;t bear on reality at all, I might give that a 1/50 chance.  Since I&#8217;m not, I&#8217;ll give it the odds it actually merits: 0.</p>
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		<title>By: too many steves</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497035</link>
		<dc:creator>too many steves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 20:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/#comment-497035</guid>
		<description>&quot;...what this result does is bring up uncomfortable questions about race, and how big a factor it will be in the 2008 election…it’s the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about very much..&quot;

So, can you be white and vote for someone other than Obama and not be racist?  Increasingly the answer, from many, is no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;what this result does is bring up uncomfortable questions about race, and how big a factor it will be in the 2008 election…it’s the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about very much..&#8221;</p>
<p>So, can you be white and vote for someone other than Obama and not be racist?  Increasingly the answer, from many, is no.</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-497025</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 19:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Everyone keeps saying Hillary can&#039;t win enough delegates, but all she has to do is keep Obama from winning enough to forge on to the Convention.  She has a case that she&#039;s more viable in the general election.  As a Repub I&#039;m not sure who I&#039;m rooting for.  If McCain loses I think I&#039;d rather have Hillary than Obama.  I never thought I&#039;d say that in a million years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone keeps saying Hillary can&#8217;t win enough delegates, but all she has to do is keep Obama from winning enough to forge on to the Convention.  She has a case that she&#8217;s more viable in the general election.  As a Repub I&#8217;m not sure who I&#8217;m rooting for.  If McCain loses I think I&#8217;d rather have Hillary than Obama.  I never thought I&#8217;d say that in a million years.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris J. Breisch</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-496974</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris J. Breisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 13:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I keep hearing that Obama plans a victory celebration after May 20, because in his eyes he will have cinched the nomination then.

Obviously it&#039;s bad form to declare yourself the winner before the other side has conceded.  But there are problems with this.

The math doesn&#039;t add up.

He&#039;s still about 130 short of what he needs to reach the incorrect number of 2025.  OR and KY together only add up to 125, and he&#039;s going to lose KY, probably big.  But he&#039;ll win OR too.  Let&#039;s be generous and give him an even split on delegates in those two states, so he picks up 63 (I&#039;ll give him the half even).  That still puts him 67 short.  So, unless he&#039;s planning on picking up around 70 superdelegates this week, it can&#039;t be done.

The scary thing for Obama is if he doesn&#039;t get to the magic number after PR, SD, and MT. A total of 52 delegates, I think, and it seems unlikely that he&#039;ll even get half, but let&#039;s be generous.  Give him 26. Now he&#039;s 41 short.  Call it a round 40.  He needs to pick up 40 more super delegates in the next three weeks (let&#039;s be honest, he probably will), or he&#039;s in trouble.

The primary season will have ended and there will be no incentive for other superdelegates to march his way. If I were an uncommitted super at that point, I&#039;m pretty sure I&#039;d wait for the convention to announce my support.  Obama can&#039;t have that.  Howard Dean can&#039;t have it either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep hearing that Obama plans a victory celebration after May 20, because in his eyes he will have cinched the nomination then.</p>
<p>Obviously it&#8217;s bad form to declare yourself the winner before the other side has conceded.  But there are problems with this.</p>
<p>The math doesn&#8217;t add up.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s still about 130 short of what he needs to reach the incorrect number of 2025.  OR and KY together only add up to 125, and he&#8217;s going to lose KY, probably big.  But he&#8217;ll win OR too.  Let&#8217;s be generous and give him an even split on delegates in those two states, so he picks up 63 (I&#8217;ll give him the half even).  That still puts him 67 short.  So, unless he&#8217;s planning on picking up around 70 superdelegates this week, it can&#8217;t be done.</p>
<p>The scary thing for Obama is if he doesn&#8217;t get to the magic number after PR, SD, and MT. A total of 52 delegates, I think, and it seems unlikely that he&#8217;ll even get half, but let&#8217;s be generous.  Give him 26. Now he&#8217;s 41 short.  Call it a round 40.  He needs to pick up 40 more super delegates in the next three weeks (let&#8217;s be honest, he probably will), or he&#8217;s in trouble.</p>
<p>The primary season will have ended and there will be no incentive for other superdelegates to march his way. If I were an uncommitted super at that point, I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;d wait for the convention to announce my support.  Obama can&#8217;t have that.  Howard Dean can&#8217;t have it either.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris J. Breisch</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-496963</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris J. Breisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 12:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/05/13/to-the-surprise-of-exactly-not-a-single-living-soul/#comment-496963</guid>
		<description>The goalposts have already been moved.  2025 (or 2026 if you prefer) is only the count if FL and MI aren&#039;t included.  Which is a ludicrous proposition. Every person in America knows that they are going to be included somehow, just not sure how.  If included in full (which almost certainly isn&#039;t going to happen), brings the count needed to win up to 2208 (or 2209 with the new delegate).  So, what&#039;s the right number?  I don&#039;t know, but it sure ain&#039;t 2025.

The other big point about this win, is that it now (as I predicted weeks ago) brings Hillary &lt;em&gt;ahead&lt;/em&gt; in popular vote count &lt;em&gt;if MI and FL&#039;s votes are included&lt;/em&gt;. I think it&#039;s safe to say that no matter what happens with MI and FL&#039;s delegates, their popular vote should/will be considered.

So, why does Hillary push on?  Maybe because she leads in the popular vote.  Maybe because she sees Obama as unelectable. Maybe because she recognizes that if Dems counted their delegates the way Reps do, she&#039;d actually have locked in the nomination by now. Maybe she&#039;s just plain ornery (hey, Teddy went to the convention in 1980 without withdrawing against an incumbent President with far less support than she has).

Current odds:
Obama wins Dem nom: 9/10 (steady, although another butt-kicking in KY and a less than impressive performance in OR may actually drop this number)
MI and FL delegate counts included in some fashion: 100% (steady)
Hillary wins popular vote for Dem nom: 6/10 (new entry)
Hillary withdraws before convention: 1/20 (new entry)
Dem nomination decided on first ballot: 9/20 (down from 1/2)
Hillary takes VP slot: 1/4 (new entry)
Obama wins Presidency: 1/3 (steady--will go up once he&#039;s declared officially Dem nominee)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The goalposts have already been moved.  2025 (or 2026 if you prefer) is only the count if FL and MI aren&#8217;t included.  Which is a ludicrous proposition. Every person in America knows that they are going to be included somehow, just not sure how.  If included in full (which almost certainly isn&#8217;t going to happen), brings the count needed to win up to 2208 (or 2209 with the new delegate).  So, what&#8217;s the right number?  I don&#8217;t know, but it sure ain&#8217;t 2025.</p>
<p>The other big point about this win, is that it now (as I predicted weeks ago) brings Hillary <em>ahead</em> in popular vote count <em>if MI and FL&#8217;s votes are included</em>. I think it&#8217;s safe to say that no matter what happens with MI and FL&#8217;s delegates, their popular vote should/will be considered.</p>
<p>So, why does Hillary push on?  Maybe because she leads in the popular vote.  Maybe because she sees Obama as unelectable. Maybe because she recognizes that if Dems counted their delegates the way Reps do, she&#8217;d actually have locked in the nomination by now. Maybe she&#8217;s just plain ornery (hey, Teddy went to the convention in 1980 without withdrawing against an incumbent President with far less support than she has).</p>
<p>Current odds:<br />
Obama wins Dem nom: 9/10 (steady, although another butt-kicking in KY and a less than impressive performance in OR may actually drop this number)<br />
MI and FL delegate counts included in some fashion: 100% (steady)<br />
Hillary wins popular vote for Dem nom: 6/10 (new entry)<br />
Hillary withdraws before convention: 1/20 (new entry)<br />
Dem nomination decided on first ballot: 9/20 (down from 1/2)<br />
Hillary takes VP slot: 1/4 (new entry)<br />
Obama wins Presidency: 1/3 (steady&#8211;will go up once he&#8217;s declared officially Dem nominee)</p>
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