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	<title>Comments on: The Georgian Crisis Continues</title>
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		<title>By: Franky</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-539039</link>
		<dc:creator>Franky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Georgia&#039;s compliance with the past cease-fire agreements and hastiness to pull its troops out of South Ossetia has no effect in the course Russia is taking. Saakashvili would of course pull his troops out of Russian occupied land since the Georgian military, in no way, can stand up to Russian fire power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Georgia&#8217;s compliance with the past cease-fire agreements and hastiness to pull its troops out of South Ossetia has no effect in the course Russia is taking. Saakashvili would of course pull his troops out of Russian occupied land since the Georgian military, in no way, can stand up to Russian fire power.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534624</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534624</guid>
		<description>Whoops, I can&#039;t type today - obviously, the second sentence should say &quot;We &lt;em&gt;shouldn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; bring countries into NATO&quot;...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops, I can&#8217;t type today &#8211; obviously, the second sentence should say &#8220;We <em>shouldn&#8217;t</em> bring countries into NATO&#8221;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534623</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 01:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534623</guid>
		<description>Jacques, your point about America and the West being over exuberant in our promises to Georgia is valid.  We should bring countries into NATO that we do not intend to stand by militarily - and if we can&#039;t stand them, practically, either...I have seen similar criticisms and they cause conflicted emotions.  I would love to see freedom everywhere, even on the borders of the Russian bear, but we must be careful not to over-promise our support.  We can give economic, diplomatic, and even some military aid in the form of advisers and weapons, to aspiring democracies of the old Eastern Bloc...but we probably can&#039;t, except under the most extreme circumstances, directly intervene with military force...so it stands to reason that a just foreign policy would exclude any such promises...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques, your point about America and the West being over exuberant in our promises to Georgia is valid.  We should bring countries into NATO that we do not intend to stand by militarily &#8211; and if we can&#8217;t stand them, practically, either&#8230;I have seen similar criticisms and they cause conflicted emotions.  I would love to see freedom everywhere, even on the borders of the Russian bear, but we must be careful not to over-promise our support.  We can give economic, diplomatic, and even some military aid in the form of advisers and weapons, to aspiring democracies of the old Eastern Bloc&#8230;but we probably can&#8217;t, except under the most extreme circumstances, directly intervene with military force&#8230;so it stands to reason that a just foreign policy would exclude any such promises&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bob from Ohio</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534607</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob from Ohio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 23:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534607</guid>
		<description>&quot;South Ossetia has been de-facto independent&quot;

Talk about BS.  South Ossetia has been under Russian control.  There is no &quot;South Ossetia&quot; as an independent area.  It is a Russian fiefdom. 

At worst, Georgia was attempting to reestablish control over part of its country that was seized by the Russians.  It may have been an error but it does not justify the intentional bombing of civilian targets.  Just to prove that the Russian bear is back. 

Ryan, the fact is that you think the Russians were ok to use force because Georgia is in its &quot;sphere of influence&quot;.  Apologist is the most polite word for that view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;South Ossetia has been de-facto independent&#8221;</p>
<p>Talk about BS.  South Ossetia has been under Russian control.  There is no &#8220;South Ossetia&#8221; as an independent area.  It is a Russian fiefdom. </p>
<p>At worst, Georgia was attempting to reestablish control over part of its country that was seized by the Russians.  It may have been an error but it does not justify the intentional bombing of civilian targets.  Just to prove that the Russian bear is back. </p>
<p>Ryan, the fact is that you think the Russians were ok to use force because Georgia is in its &#8220;sphere of influence&#8221;.  Apologist is the most polite word for that view.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534571</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534571</guid>
		<description>These are the contours of the discussion, Jacques.  Attempt to point out that the situation is complex and all of a sudden you become an apologist for the Soviet Union and Hitler all at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are the contours of the discussion, Jacques.  Attempt to point out that the situation is complex and all of a sudden you become an apologist for the Soviet Union and Hitler all at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Distler</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534557</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Distler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534557</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s bullshit, Bob, and you know it.

South Ossetia has been de-facto independent for 18 years.

The Georgians broke a 1996 agreement and moved troops into the region.

What did you expect the Russians would do?

What do you think the US would do, if Cuba moved troops into Cozumel (which is 400 miles from the US, rather than right on the border)?

I&#039;m not defending the Russians (who are far from innocent in this affair). But your unqualified support for the Georgians is &lt;em&gt;completely laughable.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s bullshit, Bob, and you know it.</p>
<p>South Ossetia has been de-facto independent for 18 years.</p>
<p>The Georgians broke a 1996 agreement and moved troops into the region.</p>
<p>What did you expect the Russians would do?</p>
<p>What do you think the US would do, if Cuba moved troops into Cozumel (which is 400 miles from the US, rather than right on the border)?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not defending the Russians (who are far from innocent in this affair). But your unqualified support for the Georgians is <em>completely laughable.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Bob from Ohio</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534537</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob from Ohio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534537</guid>
		<description>Ryan, no Swede has been a &quot;hawk&quot; since King Charles invaded Russia.  That was about 400 years ago.

Jacques: Russian aggresion always gets its apologists in the West.  THe Ribbentrop/Molotov Pact, Hungary, Prague in 1968, even Afghanistan.  

Its never the Russian&#039;s fault. They always have good reasons for using raw, naked force.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, no Swede has been a &#8220;hawk&#8221; since King Charles invaded Russia.  That was about 400 years ago.</p>
<p>Jacques: Russian aggresion always gets its apologists in the West.  THe Ribbentrop/Molotov Pact, Hungary, Prague in 1968, even Afghanistan.  </p>
<p>Its never the Russian&#8217;s fault. They always have good reasons for using raw, naked force.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534381</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 16:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534381</guid>
		<description>Bob, shall we agree to transform the word &quot;neocons&quot; above into &quot;hawks&quot;?  The result is much the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, shall we agree to transform the word &#8220;neocons&#8221; above into &#8220;hawks&#8221;?  The result is much the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Distler</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534351</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Distler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:38:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534351</guid>
		<description>It is worth pointing out that, rhetoric and saber-rattling aside, it is the French, not the Americans, who are talking the lead in attempting to defuse this crisis.

There are several reports to the effect that the US may have &quot;encouraged&quot; our good friend Saakashvili to send troops into South Ossetia, believing that it would all be over in 48 hours, before the Russians could intervene. &lt;em&gt;True or not,&lt;/em&gt; this means that the US has very little credibility with the protagonists right now.

Certainly, the ridiculous promise to add Georgia to NATO (Think about it: is there &lt;strong&gt;any&lt;/strong&gt; logistically conceivable way for NATO to militarily guarantee the security of Georgia&#039;s borders? If not, it is the height of foolishness to make such guarantees.), reiterated by Senator McCain, could only have emboldened the Georgians, with tragic consequences.

Also, as a counterpoint to all the Sudetenland comparisons, consider &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4498709.ece&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; from the Times of London.

As I said previously, this is a very dangerous precedent for the rest of the former Soviet Republics, for the countries of Eastern Europe and for the world. Russia&#039;s moves into Georgia cast a long shadow. But it is a serious mistake to paint the Georgians as the heroes and the Russians as the exclusive villains in this piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is worth pointing out that, rhetoric and saber-rattling aside, it is the French, not the Americans, who are talking the lead in attempting to defuse this crisis.</p>
<p>There are several reports to the effect that the US may have &#8220;encouraged&#8221; our good friend Saakashvili to send troops into South Ossetia, believing that it would all be over in 48 hours, before the Russians could intervene. <em>True or not,</em> this means that the US has very little credibility with the protagonists right now.</p>
<p>Certainly, the ridiculous promise to add Georgia to NATO (Think about it: is there <strong>any</strong> logistically conceivable way for NATO to militarily guarantee the security of Georgia&#8217;s borders? If not, it is the height of foolishness to make such guarantees.), reiterated by Senator McCain, could only have emboldened the Georgians, with tragic consequences.</p>
<p>Also, as a counterpoint to all the Sudetenland comparisons, consider <a href="http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4498709.ece" rel="nofollow">this</a> from the Times of London.</p>
<p>As I said previously, this is a very dangerous precedent for the rest of the former Soviet Republics, for the countries of Eastern Europe and for the world. Russia&#8217;s moves into Georgia cast a long shadow. But it is a serious mistake to paint the Georgians as the heroes and the Russians as the exclusive villains in this piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob from Ohio</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/comment-page-1/#comment-534334</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob from Ohio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/08/11/the-georgian-crisis-continues/#comment-534334</guid>
		<description>Sorry, posted too soon.

I wanted to add:

Is Sweden  a well known neocon dominated country?  They seem to make the Hitler comparison too.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt has correctly drawn an analogy between Putin’s “justification” for dismembering Georgia — because of the Russians in South Ossetia — to Hitler’s tactics vis a vis Czechoslovakia to “free” the Sudeten Deutsch.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, posted too soon.</p>
<p>I wanted to add:</p>
<p>Is Sweden  a well known neocon dominated country?  They seem to make the Hitler comparison too.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt has correctly drawn an analogy between Putin’s “justification” for dismembering Georgia — because of the Russians in South Ossetia — to Hitler’s tactics vis a vis Czechoslovakia to “free” the Sudeten Deutsch.
</p></blockquote>
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