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	<title>Comments on: Looking For Villians? Take Your Pick</title>
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	<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/</link>
	<description>Refunds Cheerfully Given To All Who Disagree</description>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567705</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 10:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567705</guid>
		<description>Worse still.  Btw, I have very little confidence that the same government, and its agents, that contributed so mightily to this crisis is capable of guiding us out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worse still.  Btw, I have very little confidence that the same government, and its agents, that contributed so mightily to this crisis is capable of guiding us out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567410</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Nope - not 13,000, but from 14,122 at the high...more later in another post, though, on this topic...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope &#8211; not 13,000, but from 14,122 at the high&#8230;more later in another post, though, on this topic&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567392</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567392</guid>
		<description>Desperate times call for desperate measures.  If &quot;socializing&quot; the banking industry in the short term serves to stabilize the markets and, therefore, protect all of our savings, 401k, and market investments, and prevents a recurrence of the sorts of things that happened during the Depression (25% unemployment for example), then I say have at it.  I don&#039;t know if those things would happen, but the market being down to 8000 from ~13000 one year ago is as much falling sky as I think we should have to endure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Desperate times call for desperate measures.  If &#8220;socializing&#8221; the banking industry in the short term serves to stabilize the markets and, therefore, protect all of our savings, 401k, and market investments, and prevents a recurrence of the sorts of things that happened during the Depression (25% unemployment for example), then I say have at it.  I don&#8217;t know if those things would happen, but the market being down to 8000 from ~13000 one year ago is as much falling sky as I think we should have to endure.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Distler</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567111</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Distler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 03:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567111</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Isn’t it socialism to nationalize industries? Whats unfair about that statement?…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s completely fair.

Albeit, these nationalization will surely be temporary.  As (say) the Swedes did, Western governments will sell off their shares in the banks, once the crisis has safely passed.

But (to summarize that Financial Times article), in the short term, nationalization is the only mechanism for recapitalizing the financial sector, and getting credit flowing again. (Well, there was the Paulson &quot;throw buckets of money out the window and hope the right people pick it up&quot; mechanism, but even Paulson seems to have largely given up on that idea.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;the basket belonging to the king of outrageous debt practices…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hey, I wish Paulson wasn&#039;t the guy in charge. I wish George &quot;27%&quot; Bush wasn&#039;t the guy on the White House Lawn, trying to calm the markets and reassure everyone that they have matter under control. I, and I&#039;m sure at least 73% of the people listening, can&#039;t get over the uncanny resemblace to his reassurances about how swimmingly things were going in Iraq.

But we&#039;re stuck with those two until January, and the world economy isn&#039;t going to wait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Isn’t it socialism to nationalize industries? Whats unfair about that statement?…</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s completely fair.</p>
<p>Albeit, these nationalization will surely be temporary.  As (say) the Swedes did, Western governments will sell off their shares in the banks, once the crisis has safely passed.</p>
<p>But (to summarize that Financial Times article), in the short term, nationalization is the only mechanism for recapitalizing the financial sector, and getting credit flowing again. (Well, there was the Paulson &#8220;throw buckets of money out the window and hope the right people pick it up&#8221; mechanism, but even Paulson seems to have largely given up on that idea.)</p>
<blockquote><p>the basket belonging to the king of outrageous debt practices…</p></blockquote>
<p>Hey, I wish Paulson wasn&#8217;t the guy in charge. I wish George &#8220;27%&#8221; Bush wasn&#8217;t the guy on the White House Lawn, trying to calm the markets and reassure everyone that they have matter under control. I, and I&#8217;m sure at least 73% of the people listening, can&#8217;t get over the uncanny resemblace to his reassurances about how swimmingly things were going in Iraq.</p>
<p>But we&#8217;re stuck with those two until January, and the world economy isn&#8217;t going to wait.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567100</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567100</guid>
		<description>But my point about the trust in a government with a $10 trillion debt wasn&#039;t so much whether to trust them to make debt payments, but rather whether we should be putting our eggs in a crisis related to outrageous debt practices into the basket belonging to the king of outrageous debt practices...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But my point about the trust in a government with a $10 trillion debt wasn&#8217;t so much whether to trust them to make debt payments, but rather whether we should be putting our eggs in a crisis related to outrageous debt practices into the basket belonging to the king of outrageous debt practices&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567099</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567099</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it socialism to nationalize industries?  Whats unfair about that statement?...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it socialism to nationalize industries?  Whats unfair about that statement?&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Distler</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567098</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Distler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 02:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567098</guid>
		<description>You could be right, Mark.

 If you see yields on Treasuries rise, as the market continues to crater, then you&#039;ll know the jig is finally up. When the &quot;flight to safety&quot; stops meaning &quot;buy Treasuries,&quot; then this country, with its $10 trillion debt will be truly f****d.

There was a hint of this, today. Hopefully, just a bunch of large hedge funds dumping Treasuries to raise cash, and not a sign of things to come.

Anyway, things have moved beyond Paulson/Bernanke. We&#039;re now talking about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp1195.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;concerted action&lt;/a&gt; by the G7 Finance Ministers. And, yes, even the Financial Times says bank nationalizations (&quot;socialism&quot;, as you would have it) are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3c29a40a-9617-11dd-9dce-000077b07658,Authorised=true.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F3c29a40a-9617-11dd-9dce-000077b07658.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&amp;_i_referer=&amp;nclick_check=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;inevitable&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could be right, Mark.</p>
<p> If you see yields on Treasuries rise, as the market continues to crater, then you&#8217;ll know the jig is finally up. When the &#8220;flight to safety&#8221; stops meaning &#8220;buy Treasuries,&#8221; then this country, with its $10 trillion debt will be truly f****d.</p>
<p>There was a hint of this, today. Hopefully, just a bunch of large hedge funds dumping Treasuries to raise cash, and not a sign of things to come.</p>
<p>Anyway, things have moved beyond Paulson/Bernanke. We&#8217;re now talking about <a href="http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp1195.htm" rel="nofollow">concerted action</a> by the G7 Finance Ministers. And, yes, even the Financial Times says bank nationalizations (&#8220;socialism&#8221;, as you would have it) are <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3c29a40a-9617-11dd-9dce-000077b07658,Authorised=true.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F3c29a40a-9617-11dd-9dce-000077b07658.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&amp;_i_referer=&amp;nclick_check=1" rel="nofollow">inevitable</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567082</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567082</guid>
		<description>Finally, Jacques, you mock me for putting my faith in the markets - I mock anyone who puts their faith in a government over $10 trillion in debt...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally, Jacques, you mock me for putting my faith in the markets &#8211; I mock anyone who puts their faith in a government over $10 trillion in debt&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-567078</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-567078</guid>
		<description>Good ol&#039; Peter - always can be relied on to keep on the partisan blinders, always impervious to evidence - you would make a great Pope.

Jacques, I never intended my list to be comprehensive, but rather illustrative of two things: (1) plenty of mistakes were made on both sides of the aisle over the last decade or more that contributed mightily to the current predicament, and (2) the fact that current champion of the little guys such as Frank (I could have easily chosen Chirs Dodd, with his sweetheart mortgage deal from Countrywide) were big fans of the greedy bastards before things went south.

Fannie and Freddie did not own &#039;subprime&#039; mortgages, true, but they vastly, vastly increased their exposure to &#039;Alt-A&#039; under pressure from largely Democratic voices in Washington.  And Greenspan might not have been in charge of the agencies that would have or should have regulated, but for decades, he was THE undisputed voice on all things economic...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good ol&#8217; Peter &#8211; always can be relied on to keep on the partisan blinders, always impervious to evidence &#8211; you would make a great Pope.</p>
<p>Jacques, I never intended my list to be comprehensive, but rather illustrative of two things: (1) plenty of mistakes were made on both sides of the aisle over the last decade or more that contributed mightily to the current predicament, and (2) the fact that current champion of the little guys such as Frank (I could have easily chosen Chirs Dodd, with his sweetheart mortgage deal from Countrywide) were big fans of the greedy bastards before things went south.</p>
<p>Fannie and Freddie did not own &#8216;subprime&#8217; mortgages, true, but they vastly, vastly increased their exposure to &#8216;Alt-A&#8217; under pressure from largely Democratic voices in Washington.  And Greenspan might not have been in charge of the agencies that would have or should have regulated, but for decades, he was THE undisputed voice on all things economic&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://informedspeculation.com/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/comment-page-1/#comment-566944</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 19:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://decision08.net/2008/10/09/looking-for-villians-take-your-pick/#comment-566944</guid>
		<description>More fiddling while rome burns.  ~8010 at today&#039;s finish, yeah, I think we need to spend more time blaming people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More fiddling while rome burns.  ~8010 at today&#8217;s finish, yeah, I think we need to spend more time blaming people.</p>
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